I understand that the Marissa has a lot of special features and I suppose this is why it performs so well and has the sophisticated structure. Location: Eustis, FL I'm in central Florida, about an hour above Orlando, depending on traffic. Both Mark and Graham are very approachable, give them a call and see how you feel about them.
The PaLena, which is called Vicky on the low power thread right now, was of considerable interest to the supporters but I'm concerned that I may not be able to get the plans. Thanks again for all your help here, I'm definitely not done here, just wanted to thank those of you that provided supportive guidance, I could not have made it to here without y'all. Location: Bend Oregon PAR, Tolman Build Time Incorrect Just a short clarification on the time it takes to build a Tolman Skiff, at least the model as discussed on this thread. Granted I do not think this boat should be built by kids and would not really be a good choice for what this thread is all about. Location: Eustis, FL Grady, you have several boats under your belt, which makes you a wee bit better then the novice, striking out on his first project.
Originally Posted by PAR Grady, you have several boats under your belt, which makes you a wee bit better then the novice, striking out on his first project. I should clairify, the 16 hours was just fairing what I call filling the low spots then sand it out and fill a little more if need be.
One other big benifit to a first time Tolman builder is there are two kit suppliers in the US one on the East Coast (Salt Water Work Shop) and one on the West Coast (West Coast Boat Works) almost anyone can build a stitch and sew boat starting out with a kit. Granted starting from scratch is a lot tougher if you have never lofted before or had much woodworking exspearience but by the time she is cut out and the parts and pieces are all glassed and scarfed togeather and ready to start building the hull if a person is mechanical at all he or she will do just fine on the rest of the build.
I'd be curious to hear PAR's input on a flat bottom skiff like his Dipper versus a v-bottom design. When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Thread: Bolger Diablo: How would you rate this boat as an open center console sport fisher?
I am looking for a simple-to-build boat to use as a center console outboard sport fishing type craft. Since the 9.9hp motor isn't powerful enough to get an 18' hull on a plane the clam skiff might be more stable and the flat bottom wouldn't be a negative at displacement speeds.
If you might use a bigger motor I'd definitely build something with a V in the forward bottom so it doesn't beat your teeth out powering into a chop.
Though I haven't been aboard those three, they look to be very nicely done, and have garnered very good reviews. I think the 'instablity' is not true instability, but rather a lack initial stability that common to all boats with large amounts of dead rise (as with Diablo). Special thanks to Bruce Hallman for his permission to link to his files, and for some images! I'd like to build a small runabout for a lake that will have 20hp limit (currently 10hp, but that is expected to change). Also, I'd like to be able to go out myself and have a little fun, and in the future maybe take a child or two. It would seem that the lengthened Glen-L Squirt and the Glen-L Flying saucer are good candidates, although ideally something in between would be nice. I'm a Naval Architect, and I have some resources available to me, so in truth I could design something myself if I had to. What sort of conditions might you go out in, and what is the size and location of the lake? Are you looking for a drop-dead beautiful runabout slathered with varnish, or something more comfy, workboat-like and functional? It actually will plane your particular payload with as little as 4 hp, and will rip right along with a 9.9 horse.
I suspect he's looking for more of the classic varnished runabout design, but the Rifleman sure is a sexy boat!
Phil Bolger's Diablo--15' 6" by 5' wide, hp up to 25 or so but they plane easily with 10-15.
I had intended to just post a link but decided to try adding the img thingies to see if it worked. If you like the Diablo here's my son-in-laws website with lots of pics and video of the boat he & I built a couple of years ago. The LOA is great, the beam is perfect, the capacity is spot on for what I need, its trailerable behind a Toyota Tacoma, and its insanely efficient for her length. The boat will spend 80% of the time on a freshwater inland lake 24 miles long and less than a mile wide. Off we went in search of those who could bring us closer to the goal of similar performance.
Jacques Mertens put out the DE25 a few years ago (and I built his LB22 last year, a fantastic boat). Timm Smith of Smith Marine Designs has seemed interested in doing a scratch design as well, but has been under the weather, so no drawings have emerged as of yet. Im very interested to find out the opinions of the masses here, comparing my needs with the above hullforms. As always, the more designs to influence the decision making process the better, so if I missed something, please let me know.

Location: Spokane, Wa CET, Ive never seen Aaron's boat in all the times Id been to Fishyfish. I know how the Tolman will perform (a bit more fuel than Id like, but still pretty good economy), which will be a great sea boat, but a bit overkill for the lake we live on. Location: Flattop Islands The pad will improve lift at lower speed, at the expense of ride in a sea, which may not be a problem with your use. Location: Spokane, Wa After a great deal of research, it seems as though the Tolman skiff in either the Widebody or Jumbo version seems to fit most of my criteria.
Tad, I agree for many reasons that the absence of chine flats makes little sense on the hull. Originally Posted by Tad The pad will improve lift at lower speed, at the expense of ride in a sea, which may not be a problem with your use.
Originally Posted by EStaggs After a great deal of research, it seems as though the Tolman skiff in either the Widebody or Jumbo version seems to fit most of my criteria. I was working on something along similar lines last year, see discussions at Playing around with a 10 m trailer cruiser where several of the forum gurus chipped in with some very insightful advice. Mat, Ive been watching that thread like a hawk, and hoped that it would progress past where it is. Location: Ontario A stitch-and-glue Tolman doesn't really have a lot of structure, so yes, I would expect it to come out rather on the light side. Location: Spokane, Wa Renn actually completed the boat, but had abysmal 12 kt results. While I dig on aluminum boats for durability, there is very little Im going to do to the 20+oz of fiberglass sheathing on the hull exterior that would require the extra 30-40% weight penalty.
Will be interesting to watch if he gets the performance up to plaining boat (Over SL 3) standards , before he sells plans. With the low cost of gasoline , and the hulls preference for a small diameter prop at higher speeds a lawn tractor air cooled ( 12hp Honda?) might fill the bill.
Location: Spokane, Wa He already has plans available, but isn't giving it a glowing report of excellence.
12kts was running the nuts off his 20hp engine, so I don't think the efficiencies are as stunning as one would hope. Mr Lathrop was kind enough to send me an email pertaining to this quest for a boat, however, so Im going to spin the bluejacket idea around a bit. It's lighter, a more refined set of shapes and it's the sexy CC design that will grab the largest market portion, come time to sell it. It can be built from plans and lots of jig saw work would be necessary, so idle hands will have plenty to do. Build time is sufficiently short so that the kid builders have a higher probability of remaining interested until completion.
There are many of us here on the forum who are extraordinarily inventive and admirably imaginative. I spent 412 actual documented build hours building a CC Tolman Wide Body 21'4" it has a five foot finish meaning from five feet it looks like a factory boat. Just trying to clear up the post by Par estimating 900 hours to build an open Tolman Skiff. I've found a novice takes at least twice as long on any task, than even a modestly skilled builder.
Most of where I had to fair were on the taped seams because I did not want to sand off too much of the tape where it hit existing fibergalss. Most of the inside sanding was again on the fillet tape joint wher the deck meets the sides. Most of us know building a stitch and glue boat with thickened epoxy is not real hard as long as you read about the do's on dont's when it comes to epoxy rules between coats.
Then I saw the Bieker Skiff thought I wanted to build that but it's the world's most complicated, to build, skiff. To get WoodenBoat delivered to your door or computer, mobile device of choice, etc, click WB Subscriptions.
I would like to be able to take myself and an adult passenger (wife) out to watch the sailboat races, which means we need enough speed to get between the leeward mark and the weather mark (staying out of the race area) before the fleet does. I am not aware of any plans in this size range that are not plywood, but I'll accept any suggestions at all. But small powerboats aren't really my area of expertise and it would seem that it would be better to at least *start* with a proven design. The lake has a 10hp limit, but legislation is working it's way through the system to raise it to 20hp and I expect it to pass by the time I complete the boat. Plenty of space, plenty of speed, easy to build, good-looking, and the outboard is in a covered well so it's nice and quiet. Runabout seems to cover a lot of styles these days but for something that is stable and will still fly on demand, one of the smaller planing hulls would be great for such.
It doesn't get rougher than 2' wind chop, and I need very high fuel efficiency with moderate (20-28kts) top speeds.
Id need to do a little cabin mod to make it open, but it isn't as efficient, requiring 90hp to get similar speeds. This is also designed for a water ballast tank to make her more tolerable in the trolling and slow stuff, while shedding the weight for planing speeds.
I haven't experienced a ride in one of the lifting padded boats yet, so I have no idea how they perform.

I am concerned that your design isn't going to be able to swing the 900lb hull and cabin weight I can get with the Tolman plans. I think he needs to refine his hullform to something closer to Atkin's, rather than just trying to adapt the tunnel stern to his hull.
I am really seeking out seaworthy in moderate conditions with livable (4-6nmpg) fuel economy. It has seemingly been producing numbers competitive with every other design, with a strong reputation offshore. Electric start , no shift , no reverse ,no freezing or antifreez but light and cheap (and QUIET!) to run.With a prop designed for high speeds , a hand can hold the boats thrust at idle. He was hoping for the magical 18kt cruise on a cup of diesel an hour, but I think hes gonna have to get narrower and lighter.
Select a boat type that sells in a price range that is reachable by the largest segment of the buying public, a boat that can fit the maximum number of family budgets. Now if you are talking a Tolman Jumbo with full cuddy and pilot house you might want to add 200 hours for a total of 1100.
A novice finishing is much worse, mostly because they don't understand what fair is, until the shinny stuff goes on. Having this website to ask other Toman builders question is invaluable and is in itself one of the reasons Tolmans can be built by a first timer. The 18ft Diablo Grande looks like a fair craft for this use, with the nice sharp bow and narrow foot, but is she too tender to fish all the way around her in the open configuration? I like the diablo design, and I'm sure she's great underway, but my concern is two 225lb arthritic dudes fishing over the sides, tipping out into the harbor. The Squirt seems like it would be a bit tight for 2 people, and the FS seems like it might want a little more than 20hp, and certainly more than 10hp. Its no monster, but she has all the qualities you would want in a small workboat with small horsepower and big boat seakeeping for its size. I hear tell that glued ply lapstrake can have some maintenance hassles (painting, preventing plank edges from cracking or saturating with water), but you can put great shape into them as well. 17-20kts is definitely feasible as evidenced by Robb White, but it is a very special boat to accomplish this.
It's not a simple build, though a kit will help a great deal in this regard, but she'll likely sell quickly and the kids will just be dieing to drive it.
In addition you will find, a few PHD level participants who are the antithesis of stodgy thinkers. I'm considering building two at the same time so we have something to build while we wait for curing.
I know many a boat that was near completion, when it was rolled into the sunlight for the first time, just to get quickly rolled back in the shed, for a redo on the surfaces. I had very few spots on the hull that needed fairing moststly up where the bow stem, sides and chine intersected. The guys including me are real good about answering questions and the search function is awsome.
I'm kind of wavering back and forth between this design and the Clam Skiff, as I already own the book with plans and build keys for both.
It seems that as long as you aren't water-skiing or riding a jet-ski or disturbing the sailors and fishermen, nobody is really concerned either way. I think this fellow also posted some pictures of the boat getting along faster than this picture shows. Also they seem like they would tolerate the water ballast system well, draining easily through venturis. Marissa can be powered with a 25 HP outboard, which is pretty cheap, but will take a 60 or possibly larger (ask Graham), which will make her get up and haul the mail.
I was not including the time spent sanding down the hull through the different grits to get to a finish grit of 220. Power, at the moment will be supplied by my trusty merc 9.9, but may be upgraded after some performance testing.
I fully believe I saved 75-100 hours of fairing time getting a good finish just because I used Okoume rather than Fir marine ply. Lastly, whatever it is, the combined weight including the trailer must be under 5000lbs, as that's the max trailer GVW for my Tacoma. All but the most philanthropicly inclined buyers will run, not walk, away from a kid built twenty foot power boat boat purchase.
I did not spend more than 16 hours fairing the hull and never touched a long board because I have a compressor big enough to run an in line sander. It is easier to experiment with an aluminum construction to find the best location for a given purpose.
I like the versatility and stability of the clamskiff design, and the blank canvas a big open boat offers for interior layout.

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