Originally Posted by LyndonJ I'd stick to conventional methods, you'l have an asset then that you can relise when you sell.
On a steel boat, where you build in your details and weld them down, which would have cost exponentially more in a non metal boat, the finished steel work is thus a far greater portion of the finished boat, than it is for non metal boats. As I point out in my book, people often fail to differentiate between resale value and resale price. The fact that McNaughton is too dense to comprehend basic geometric principles has nothing to do with structural reality.
The picture above is of wooden planking ,which has no strength across the planks , which is exactly what frames were developed for. There is nothing floppy about a finished origami hull.Such comments reveal an absolute naivety about the subject. As for the cost beatup, you were asked before just how much it would really cost on another thread (in time and dollars) to add 5 or 6 transverse bar frames to a 36 foot steel boat. Nobody said that origami hulls are floppier, they are just weaker becasue the framing is floppier than a conventional frame.
But you need to accept that some of your reasoning doesn't scale well to larger boats with much higher loads.
Location: British Columbia Points 1 and 2 apply equally to longitudinals, as they are equally supported by their being welded to the hull plate, with the added structural advantage of going around a curve, yet you insist on calculating them as stand alone, with no attachment to, or support from, the hull plate. It doesn't cost much to put 6 transverse frames in a hull, once it has been pulled together using origami methods, altho I know one guy who turned a couple of frames into a several week project, to increase his total income for the job.The point I am making is, if you put the frames up first, then try put the plate on to fit the frames, the cost and time goes up exponentially. Originally Posted by Brent Swain Points 1 and 2 apply equally to longitudinals, as they are equally supported by their being welded to the hull plate, with the added structural advantage of going around a curve, yet you insist on calculating them as stand alone, with no attachment to, or support from, the hull plate.
The relevance of frames is quite necessary to make the whole ship an almost corrugate systeme, with all the strength in all the direction.
Now when the round plate is transformed in chine on your design, you have an intense stress point there, and that is no good practice. As for your other boat, they all are ceiled in wood inside and seams to cost much more that a Swan. Fisherman and commercial are tough with the money, every cent is acconted, but you don't know that. By the way I would like to mention, a vessel of a certain size is never ever designed by one person, same for building. We may argue about his biased opinions, about his terribly obvious lack of understanding some basic engineering, but we cannot argue that he does it to harm or insult other members. I know there are visitors here which cannot really get it together, where is the knowledge and where the anecdote. Reverse clipper bows and wine glass cross sections would be difficult but practically any other single and multi chine hull form can be done in origami.
It's clear that the longitudinals go into tension, suffer stress reversals and consequently deflect more that a pre bent frame. Originally Posted by whoosh … do these boats come with lines, as iines if one wanted to draw a body plan, for tankage floors frames etc? That can be done by the software, or you can build chine model and take the strakes patterns from it.. Originally Posted by dskira When I designed and latter on built (sorry, I built too, but that is not relevant since you want to be the only one here) if we don't put frames the vessel will have been not able to do its work properly due to wickness, let alone having the cargo capacity strength needed to pay for itself and being safe. Daniel As I only build one hull a year, a couple of weeks work, and on every on I work with the owner, who's lifelong dreams are coming true , quickly before his eyes, it never gets boring.
The end of the chine where the cone begins is solid plate once the chine ends, not weld, so one is not dependent on the weld for strength. Where Paul's mast goes thru the deck, a large doubler of heavier plate, plus some flat bars on edge eliminates the chances of anything wobbling .
The only compression on the mast is only the weight of the mast, rigging and sails on a junk rig , unlike the tremendous compression on a marconi rig.
Colvin estimates 1,000 hours for a hull and deck, something origami lets you do put together in under 100 hours. As I pointed out in the cabin top example, a curve drastically increases the stiffness of a piece of plate . None of my boats have ever had problems getting insurance at the best rates, or passing survey. Originally Posted by Brent Swain None of my boats have ever had problems Hope it will stay that way.
Location: British Columbia I have made wineglass sterns by welding the last few inches of centreline first, before cranking the deadrise out with the hydraulic jack. As Herreschoff pointed out , in smaller boats, clipper bows tend to stop a boat dead in her tracks when they hit a steep head sea.

Many of my hulls have saved their owners from the disasters which would have resulted in most other cruising boats out there.
The hull will need a lot of framing following on from that picture and I'm skeptical that in the long run with a vessel that size it might just re-allocate the build time. Roberts has a method which is said to be fast, its bottom plate then framing then the rest built bottom up.
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I have been looking at building a boat for a bit now, I am looking at the Vagabond 20' or 23' as a trailer sailor, large enough for a weekend sail with the kids and small enough to haul. If so what did you find challenging about the build or what improvements would you suggest? Location: Australia It might be a bit too sporty for your requirements but a current design for home building that is gaining momentum is the i550.
Nice looking craft, I'll take it into consideration ,and review it today, I appreciate your replies, good budget to build as well I see.

That said a 20-25 ft is a great size and trailerable, although I can set a mooring at his place and not have to worry about the trailering so much. Location: OREGON Scroll down to see a very pretty sailboat called the Kingston Lobster Boat. Originally Posted by rasorinc Scroll down to see a very pretty sailboat called the Kingston Lobster Boat.
Best, Stan I agree rosorinc that is a beautiful boat, and thanks for the post, I have a issues of the woodenboat magazine and they have a nice weekender in the latest issue.
Location: New Brunswick, Canada I really appreciate the input from everyone, it is reassuring that a boat build is in my future and to have the many folks here to pick their brains.
I am relatively new to the entire nautical lifestyle, enjoyed a few boats in my youth, and enjoyed learning to sail and am so excited to get a build going! I hate to be the devil's advocate here, but building a boat is a big commitment in terms of time, money and effort. We have been sailing as the crew on the Allyance,(brother-in-law's) a 27ft Hunter, for a few summers now, and both my wife and I love it.
I have the full support of my wife on the build (as long as the other regular house maintenace doesn't go slack LOL). I really liked a lot of the reasons behind the CLC Pocketship as detailed in the Woodenboat article and on the CLC website. I am now on my THIRD build and i know it sounds absolutely CRAZY that i started another small build in the middle of my big build, but what i learned this time around will save me MANY hours of time further down the line. The learning curve is endless and i can now absolutely prove it - that by building a small dinghy first, you do save time and money. When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals.
So make up such a frame for a 40 footer, and I can bend it by hand, by simply putting one end against the wall and pushing on it. By itself, it is as floppy as hell, but once it is tacked down, with a 7 inch camber, with no structural members under it, six guys can stand and jump on it, without it buckling or deforming in any visible way. It will first twist the plating, second will wooble the deck, and third the mast will go thru the hull. I thought you knew that, but evidently you don't, since your very mean attack on my resume prove it. There, a dumb welder with insufficient and outlasted licenses can blame a well established boatbuilder of being a novice.
Their excitement , and enthusiasm in seeing a hull take shape in a few hours from flat plate, is contagious. Resale value is the difference between what you can get for a boat and what she cost you in the first place. The attached framing limits damage and provides safe stress paths which is not only a strength and stiffness issue but also a fatigue issue.
Since your method of framing is floppier for being pre-stressed then the hull structure will buckle more easily.
It does develop soft spots once the longitudinal welds are done , which is why I force flat bar beams up under it, on 18 centres , along the direction of the curve, like longitudinals , not fore and aft, across the curve , like transverse frames. The deck is weakest point, the design need more attention since some renforcement can be detrimental localizing the stress inset of diffusing it.
Building a current design with a growing fleet might be a cheaper option as the resale value will be better. Andrews NB or Grand Manan, but for the most part as mentioned before mostly river sailing. It's not how much material you put in a structure that makes it effective, it's where you put the material.
Highest strake stays in one piece, lower strakes are cut in the middle and ends of the plates are connected.
My current boat, with about three inches of outside curve , goes thru a head sea far more smoothly, with far less resistance.The buildup of buoyancy is far less sudden.
The deck is weakest point, the design need more attention since some renforcement can be detrimental localizing the stress inset of difusing it. So you can get a reduced puncture resistance if you want, but I'd still put the required framing in.
It is where you put the material ,and for puncture resistance, it's best put in plate thickness.