Metal buildings, steel building kits, metal building kits, garage kits, RV covers, and metal carports. See that your machine OCV (open curcuit voltage) is on par or higher than the requirement of the CO2 welding wire manufacture spec. Another trick welding aluminium is to remove all oxidation on the alu where you want to weld with sandpaper or file before welding it. From experience I have found that it is easier to push the weld rather than pulling it as an arc weld.
Originally Posted by Wynand N Another trick welding aluminium is to remove all oxidation on the alu where you want to weld with sandpaper or file before welding it. Location: Wasilla Alaska One of my Sign guy customers just bought the Lincoln your talking about getting. Location: Western Australia For what it is worth, I will throw in my opinion here as well.
The 260 amp machine was big enough, but on a couple of the heavier welds I had it on maximum settings.
It sounds as though some of the people writing in this thread are learning alloy welding as they go. If you are making MIG welds without this sort of testing you are risking wasting a large quantity of expensive alloy. Location: Western Australia Yes, I designed it specifically to give good performance between 5 and 15 knots, as I have a place on a river area where there is a lot of concern about wake damage.
I have just towed the boat 500 miles north to a place called Shark Bay and it towed very well at 50 to 60 mph.
It is not perfect, as the broad quarters are inclined to lift in a following sea and some active steering input is required in long seas.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Originally Posted by LyndonJ I'd stick to conventional methods, you'l have an asset then that you can relise when you sell. On a steel boat, where you build in your details and weld them down, which would have cost exponentially more in a non metal boat, the finished steel work is thus a far greater portion of the finished boat, than it is for non metal boats. As I point out in my book, people often fail to differentiate between resale value and resale price. The fact that McNaughton is too dense to comprehend basic geometric principles has nothing to do with structural reality. The picture above is of wooden planking ,which has no strength across the planks , which is exactly what frames were developed for.
There is nothing floppy about a finished origami hull.Such comments reveal an absolute naivety about the subject.
As for the cost beatup, you were asked before just how much it would really cost on another thread (in time and dollars) to add 5 or 6 transverse bar frames to a 36 foot steel boat. Nobody said that origami hulls are floppier, they are just weaker becasue the framing is floppier than a conventional frame. But you need to accept that some of your reasoning doesn't scale well to larger boats with much higher loads. Location: British Columbia Points 1 and 2 apply equally to longitudinals, as they are equally supported by their being welded to the hull plate, with the added structural advantage of going around a curve, yet you insist on calculating them as stand alone, with no attachment to, or support from, the hull plate. It doesn't cost much to put 6 transverse frames in a hull, once it has been pulled together using origami methods, altho I know one guy who turned a couple of frames into a several week project, to increase his total income for the job.The point I am making is, if you put the frames up first, then try put the plate on to fit the frames, the cost and time goes up exponentially. Originally Posted by Brent Swain Points 1 and 2 apply equally to longitudinals, as they are equally supported by their being welded to the hull plate, with the added structural advantage of going around a curve, yet you insist on calculating them as stand alone, with no attachment to, or support from, the hull plate.
The relevance of frames is quite necessary to make the whole ship an almost corrugate systeme, with all the strength in all the direction. Now when the round plate is transformed in chine on your design, you have an intense stress point there, and that is no good practice.
As for your other boat, they all are ceiled in wood inside and seams to cost much more that a Swan.
Fisherman and commercial are tough with the money, every cent is acconted, but you don't know that. By the way I would like to mention, a vessel of a certain size is never ever designed by one person, same for building.
We may argue about his biased opinions, about his terribly obvious lack of understanding some basic engineering, but we cannot argue that he does it to harm or insult other members. I know there are visitors here which cannot really get it together, where is the knowledge and where the anecdote.
Reverse clipper bows and wine glass cross sections would be difficult but practically any other single and multi chine hull form can be done in origami. It's clear that the longitudinals go into tension, suffer stress reversals and consequently deflect more that a pre bent frame. Originally Posted by whoosh … do these boats come with lines, as iines if one wanted to draw a body plan, for tankage floors frames etc?
That can be done by the software, or you can build chine model and take the strakes patterns from it.. Originally Posted by dskira When I designed and latter on built (sorry, I built too, but that is not relevant since you want to be the only one here) if we don't put frames the vessel will have been not able to do its work properly due to wickness, let alone having the cargo capacity strength needed to pay for itself and being safe.
Daniel As I only build one hull a year, a couple of weeks work, and on every on I work with the owner, who's lifelong dreams are coming true , quickly before his eyes, it never gets boring. The end of the chine where the cone begins is solid plate once the chine ends, not weld, so one is not dependent on the weld for strength. Where Paul's mast goes thru the deck, a large doubler of heavier plate, plus some flat bars on edge eliminates the chances of anything wobbling . The only compression on the mast is only the weight of the mast, rigging and sails on a junk rig , unlike the tremendous compression on a marconi rig. Colvin estimates 1,000 hours for a hull and deck, something origami lets you do put together in under 100 hours. As I pointed out in the cabin top example, a curve drastically increases the stiffness of a piece of plate .
None of my boats have ever had problems getting insurance at the best rates, or passing survey. Originally Posted by Brent Swain None of my boats have ever had problems Hope it will stay that way.


Location: British Columbia I have made wineglass sterns by welding the last few inches of centreline first, before cranking the deadrise out with the hydraulic jack. As Herreschoff pointed out , in smaller boats, clipper bows tend to stop a boat dead in her tracks when they hit a steep head sea. Many of my hulls have saved their owners from the disasters which would have resulted in most other cruising boats out there. The hull will need a lot of framing following on from that picture and I'm skeptical that in the long run with a vessel that size it might just re-allocate the build time.
Roberts has a method which is said to be fast, its bottom plate then framing then the rest built bottom up. Location: New Jersey Steel Boat Building Techniques I am looking at a custom (homemade) 40' steel boat.
I cannot remember which book I saw it in, but I once saw a boat built in the lapstrake (clinker) style out of steel. Originally Posted by Chapman Sorry to answer your question with more questions, but I've never seen a lap joint used on shell plating with the possible exception of doubler plates being added. Although all those welds & resulting heat would be a negative, the longitudinal strength would be impressive.
All those laps would also present alot of corrosion possibilities, exterior & especially interior. Location: Australia The overlap method was common for a decade or so after the move from riveting joins to welding. Either alternate under over plating, or lapstrake or jogged seam where the overlap is heated with a torch and hammered over the lower plate till it fits snug .
In all types both the inner and the outer plate edge are then fully welded to the plate below. The boatyard saves a lot of time in fitting since you can have a large tolerance on the edges. The problem is the internal void along the overlap and if the welds don't seal completely it corrodes.
Location: Maryland Actually laps have an advantage for some welding issues - you can use drag rod. Originally Posted by CDBarry Actually laps have an advantage for some welding issues - you can use drag rod.
Welding stainless steel hazards » Thread Tools Show Printable Version Email this Page Display Modes Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode Search this Thread Advanced Search Similar Threads Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post 10 years for building a steel sailing boat!. Tolman Alaskan Skiffs Building Plans does a great job outlining the various steps for building this boat. Welcome To Spira International Home Built Wooden and Aluminum Boat Plans be experiencing the fun and satisfaction of building your own boat. Location: London, UK Small steel boat Hi, I have a number of pieces of steel salvaged from a houseboat remodelling job I did.
This boat is biger than 12 feet, but You can have problems with wight if You want exactly 12 feet. Location: British Columbia, Canada metal boat project 3 These are pics from the latest metal boat project. I want head room and some space for the air inside the cabin to move so the windshied dont fog up so bad on those miserable days when the salmon are in but the weather came in with them.
Location: British Columbia steel The stainless cleats I weld on take a minute to fabricate and cost under $1,,and will never leak or work loose. People who try to sustain the elitist ******** notion that only the most expensive and time consuming way of building and rigging a boat will work, and the elitist ******** notion that not having enough money to go the most expensive route means you can't go cruising, costs far more people their cruising dreams, than those who show them more affordable alternatives, like building sheet blocks for a couple of bucks , watermakers for a tenth of the retail price, furlers for under $200, hulls in three days , etc etc. My methods have saved a lot of people their cruising dreams and have made them a reality for many who could never afford to live them, had they bought the elitist ********.
Location: Australia My Steel Boat I have a beautiful steel boat, it's a 38' Alan Payne Koonya that was built in Freemantle in 1973.
If you give a steel hull several coats of cold galvanizing primer,imediately after blasting, before your epoxy, you get a bit more time to touch up dings and scrapes before it starts to rust.
During the auto detailing process, ensure the vehicle is in a shady space, preferably a cool shop or a roofed space. Lucie, FL New to welding Aluminum I was on earlier about MIG machines and you all warned me against buying a cheap machine. Because of the torch nozzle size, it is easier to see where you are welding and it produce a better looking weld. You can remove the closed-pore oxidation (old and foggy), and it would be replaced by an open-pore oxide layer (new and shiny). I have built several steel and wooden vessels over the last 20 years but designed and built my first alloy (28 feet) boat two years ago. This was when welding 5mm plate to 10mm flat bar for the chine weld and 28mm round bar to 5mm plate on the stem. Helium mixtures are better for high penetration in thicker material and being lighter are also better for overhead welding. It should be degreased and sanded clean of all old mill scale before assembly and it should also be wire brushed with a clean stainless steel wire brush immediately before welding. The spool gun might be OK, but if I had used one, I would have to build the boat differently, beacuse I don't think I could have got the bulkier unit into all the places I did.
Lucie, FL Thanks for that; I am going to take a MIG course in the next semester.
It is not very efficient above 20 knots, as it causes a lot of turbulence as the water tries to follow the twist or warp in the hull. The mark 2 version that I am just finishing the desig for, will hopefully fix this problem. So make up such a frame for a 40 footer, and I can bend it by hand, by simply putting one end against the wall and pushing on it. By itself, it is as floppy as hell, but once it is tacked down, with a 7 inch camber, with no structural members under it, six guys can stand and jump on it, without it buckling or deforming in any visible way.
It will first twist the plating, second will wooble the deck, and third the mast will go thru the hull. I thought you knew that, but evidently you don't, since your very mean attack on my resume prove it. There, a dumb welder with insufficient and outlasted licenses can blame a well established boatbuilder of being a novice.


Their excitement , and enthusiasm in seeing a hull take shape in a few hours from flat plate, is contagious. But other than possibly ice-work, I think a proper steel boats much more than adequate strength wise. The same would go for a repair where someone welded plate over a bad section instead of properly cutting the section out and insetting a new piece, a matter of fact, plate over plate would be much worse I would think. We had a yard bulding a boat here that was offering a discount to plate this way but local DNV were not happy.
To begin one of these DIY projects its necessary to find a set of aluminum boat building plans.
The same cleat in bolt on to fibreglas or wood version costs $40, not counting the bolts and bedding compound needed to bolt them down, and take longer to go buy than to build for a metal boat. I keep it moored in the Brisbane River and enjoy sailing her around Moreton Bay and up the Queensland coast. This is because many of the common and effective car detailing products like paint and wax do not work properly when used on hot surfaces.
I bought the heaviest single phase (240 volt) machine available, which was a 260 amp machine with push feed on a 10 foot stinger.
The oxide on alloy melts at a much higher termperature than the metal and if you do not get rid of it it will sit in the weld in flakes and weaken the weld.
Although this style is not my forte, I know what it takes in the design, developing, and construction aspects, to get a finished aluminum boat to look this nice. Resale value is the difference between what you can get for a boat and what she cost you in the first place. The attached framing limits damage and provides safe stress paths which is not only a strength and stiffness issue but also a fatigue issue. Since your method of framing is floppier for being pre-stressed then the hull structure will buckle more easily. It does develop soft spots once the longitudinal welds are done , which is why I force flat bar beams up under it, on 18 centres , along the direction of the curve, like longitudinals , not fore and aft, across the curve , like transverse frames. The deck is weakest point, the design need more attention since some renforcement can be detrimental localizing the stress inset of diffusing it. Detailing a steel boat costs a fraction of what it does for non metal boats , and is far more trouble free, for exactly this reason. You do have to keep an eya on the paint and repair any scratches or chips before the rust gets going. If you trim all outside corners with stainless and put ss handrails on the outside corners of the cabin sides ,instead of slightly inboard, you reduce the amount of dings and chipped paint on the corners drastically, reducing your maintenance by up to 80%. I have held off on this particular welder because I am still unsure of it's ability to handle the stock I generally use.
I appreciate the offer of the spool guns but I had better hold off until I settle on something for a powerhead. The suppliers all looked very doubtfull that this was a big enough machine for what I wanted, but I did not want to go for a 440 volt three pahse machine, as this would limit its resale value. Because MIG is a semi-automatic process, machine settings and weld procedures are critical. With new plate material you can get away with just the wire brush but with weathered plate and all extrusions you have to sand or grind the mill scale off. Top speed empty has been around 15 knots and she cruises very comfortably in any sea conditions at 13 to 14 knots at about 10 to 12 litres per hour consumption. Most boats in Western Australia are designed to go 40 miles offshore and come back the same day. Most detail, like lifelines , handrails, cleats , mooring bits , hatch hinges , engine mounts, winch bases,anchor winch, blocks , etc etc are fabricated from scrapyard stainless for about $1.50 a pound, a fraction the cost of buying finished hardware at retail prices. Now, what will hurt your weld is oil, dirt, the white residue that is left during oxidation, etc. If you make a bad weld in alloy, you will not know until it fails, which could be catastrophic. Though my goals are much more modest and my welding will be mainly in fabrication on trailers and other gear. It's not how much material you put in a structure that makes it effective, it's where you put the material.
Highest strake stays in one piece, lower strakes are cut in the middle and ends of the plates are connected. My current boat, with about three inches of outside curve , goes thru a head sea far more smoothly, with far less resistance.The buildup of buoyancy is far less sudden. Metal Boat Kits in Steel and Aluminum , Boat Design and CNC Part Development from suitable plans. If I were commercial I wound not hesitate but as a hobbyist I think my wife might think about murder. In a MIG welding course, you are taught what causes a wedl to be rejected for visual faults and whwn you are making welds that pass visual inspection you are taught how to cut the weld test piece up and acid etch it to see just how good it is inside.
Just a note that the Lincoln 175 turns out to be a lower end model built for the mass market and the price jumped to $617 so I bought a new Hobart Handler 180 from Airgas. The deck is weakest point, the design need more attention since some renforcement can be detrimental localizing the stress inset of difusing it.
Clark Craft offers hundreds of boat plans, design patterns and complete boat kits, and a full line of boat building Steel & Aluminum.
So you can get a reduced puncture resistance if you want, but I'd still put the required framing in. If this worlks, you note down all the machine settings in a procedure and use then settings next time you make this kind of weld. It is where you put the material ,and for puncture resistance, it's best put in plate thickness. The only rust I could find was was in the butt welded deck plate where one side door has been leaking for some time.



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