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Puzzle Warehouse recycles everything it can to save the environment and to keep costs and prices low. One proposal for the Rockaway Beach Branch Line involves sending the R train to the airport. As the effort to convert the Rockaway Beach Branch Line into a park gains state funds and media recognition, transit advocates are starting to raise their voices against the plan. Unfortunately the local tracks, while also theoretically capable of 30 trains per hour, are presently only running at about 20 trains per hour in the peak period. Isn’t flipping the R for the M in your scenario basically just subbing in one local train for another? At the same time, there is no way a Howard Beach-Rego Park line can justify eight-car or ten-car trains every ten minutes, at least not initially.
And what would you be saying to the people at 179th Street (the third-biggest bus-subway transfer point in the system) who would be getting the R instead of the F? If the R would be the only train operating to 179th Street – the only station serving huge parts of Eastern, Southeastern and Northeastern Queens and Nassau County, while the F runs to the airport and the Rockaways, it would be totally unacceptable. Yeah, I can say the same about the M21 if you’d extend the M down to the Rockaways instead.
Most people would probably be taking the local to an express stop anyway, so probably nothing. Actually, having people transfer at a terminus opens up more travel options and reduces the lengths of train rides.
Besides, no one wants to ride a slowpoke local service from Manhattan or Brooklyn to the far reaches of Queens.
That sounds like a better idea; it makes use of existing infrastructure rather than constructing new platforms. But then, wouldn’t it actually be cheaper to build a 300-foot-long platform rather than a full-length 600-foot-long platform?
Well, if the R ran express and the N local in Manhattan (the R would become local and the N express in Brooklyn), then the R extension to 179th should be considered. For the commuters boarding on the three stops that you eliminated from the F, wouldn’t their commutes be longer now?
As for the effected stations that could lose F service, how much longer could a commute be with a cross platform transfer at Kew Gardens or Contenental over what it is currently. The F currently runs express at all times between 36 Street and Continental Avenue, and local at all times between Continental and 179 Street.
If the Culver express gets restored, peak hours you can have Culver Express trains also run the express segment on Hillside. Most riders get off at 179th, with some getting off at 169th, and Sutphin is basically an afterthought, so express service won’t impact ridership that badly. If this were ever done, the other thing that really should be looked at would be the conversion of Woodhaven Blvd.


There’s actually bellmouths leading off from the local track before Woodhaven that could be used to run tracks on the outside of the current local platform. Sending the pokiest line in the system to JFK is not going to win any hearts and minds, plus the route becomes ridiculously long.
That was actually considered in 1988 when the Jamaica Centre extension was first proposed: the G and Broadway Local would go to Jamaica Ctr. OTOH, having the E run outdoors will make it less appealing to homeless people who make the E their home on winter days. As for G on Queens Blvd, rush hr F or E local service might be more attractive to help alleviate crowding on E and F through East River tunnels.
The whole point of this is to increase TPH on the local tracks, from around the present peak of 19-20 trains to 27-28 trains, as I explained in my post. The only reason why the G was cut back was because there was not enough money to keep the extension to Forest Hills (and also due to capacity constraints.) When the QB line gets CBTC from Forest Hills to 50 Street, maybe the extension of a QB local service to the Rockaways can be considered, and maybe the E , G, M, or R can finally be extended to the Rockaways. Considering Howard Beach is tracks wide, track capacity exists for a new level and wouldn’t require the train to ever run on the A Tracks (solving a scheduling issue).
It would make sense to build a new level for the Howard Beach Station to terminate the R and extend the Broad Channel Shuttle (when operational again) to Howard Beach.
Another extremely beneficial but expensive idea would be to create a new Main Street Terminal at 73rd Avenue for the local service from Forest Hills. And another idea that we cannot afford is a reconstruction of the IND World’s Fair line, which would do exactly the same thing, but serve more people. Which is why the original MTA plan, the promise to link the 63rd Street tunnel to the LIRR freight tracks for a new subway to SE Queens via Jamaica, was defeated. This is necessitated by the terminal at 71-Continental, which can only turn around about 20 trains per hour at the limit, and that not very well. This proposal is an ideal one for many reasons and would require far less capital investment than building a new line from scratch. Just imagine if we had the leadership to dedicate funds to projects like this and the Triboro RX. I think we should aim for more realism here, no matter how likely reactivating this line is. There’s a junction from westbound F to southbound T, and vice versa, west of Roosevelt Island. If you do what I propose you retain the existing local run on the R & you give other riders a faster trip on the F by eliminating three aditional stops. I don’t know for sure, but there could be enough ridership during off-peak hours to justify service of the three affected stations during those times.
You are right, local and express trains do usually come within 2-3 minutes of each other, but that’s 2-3 minutes of time wasted. However, off-peak, waiting for a train at the Hillside Ave stations can be a bit onerous, so it should probably be a peak-only thing.


Culver Express trains run express on the Jamaica Line with the designation, and Culver Local trains run local on the Jamaica Line east of 71 Avenue, with the (F) designation). If that was done, the current local tracks would be filled in to create about a 25-foot wide island platform (which given the width of Queens Blvd. The Broadway Line is a suggestion only because there isn’t any direct track connections to the Fulton Street line right now (but riders wanting to go the JFK could still transfer at Jay St-Metrotech). At the least, rail should be placed on equal footing with the QueensWay option, and at the most, reactivating a disused right-of-way should take clear precedent if it is technically feasible.
Greenpoint and Williamsburg can be reconnected to Astoria and Jackson Heights with revived G train service.
At a time when mobility matters and vulnerabilities have taken center stage, reactivating the rail line deserves as much attention, if not more, than the QueensWay initiative. Extend the R to 179th Jamaica & have the F skip a few more stops from Kew Gardens to 179th. Besides, there usually isn’t enough ridership east of Briarwood-Van Wyck to justify F express service all the way to 179th. Imagine if a passenger wanting to take the Culver Local accidentally takes the express because there wasn’t anything distinguishing the different services. Keeping the situation as it is would mean riders coming in from the Rockaway Branch would join those transferring from the Queens Blvd.
If the R goes to Jamaica Centre, then the E must be extended to Howard Beach so the E doesn’t lose its JFK connection.
It’d make more sense to bring the M over because it will give 6th Ave and Queens Blvd the option to the Rockaway. However if F express is nessessary then adding M or R service overnight will fill frequency gaps. But this passenger friendly part-time service died to make weekend service changes more doable). By connecting this line to the Queens Boulevard line east (subway north) of 63rd Drive station – the tunnel bell mouths are there specifically for that scenario – the path to another local service terminal would be created, i.e. Better to get the transfer over with at Woodhaven and also throw an easier-transfer-to-the-express bone to riders at 67th Avenue, who you know are going to be howling about having their R train replaced with G service. He wants to send the R to Howard Beach via the Rockaway Beach Branch and restore G train service to the Queens Boulevard line. In this way peak trains per hour on the Queens Boulevard local tracks could be raised from the present day 20 trains per hour up to 27 ? trains per hour, given the current timetables on those three lines.



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