The article was evidently written by Gary Baigent, who contributes to this list, and whose boats Flash Harry & Misguided Angel are also described.
Of course, I am most interested in the smaller boats that are more nearly comparable to my own (Broomstick). I'm hoping Gary will see this & answer, but I would also like to hear from anyone who has more info on these great foilers. Speaking about 30 year old Flash Harry, (6 x 6 metre) the boat is very basic and because of that, is light, two people can pick the complete boat up fully rigged, haven?t weighed it, I?d say 75 kgs. The boat will fly going to windward in 12-14 knots wind and fly higher as wind increases, fantastic fun and points high. The two wing mast cross section b&w's show the difference between Harry's and Dave's foiler. You are more interested in the smaller boats Doug, so we'll leave Groucho out of this - has been posted before anyway. The hulls must be very light, especially since the large wing mast must weigh a fair amount itself.
Harry's hulls are built of similar dimensioned materials sheathed in glass and some foam and kevlar bulkheads in loaded areas - tensioned ply is still a very good lightweight method even in this day and age.
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Chris Ostlind Previous Member   Foiling Cats Have you seen this boat from Corsair? It is most interesting to see a planing hull on a big catamaran This cat will be one to contend with on the race course against the 60ft Tri's he's going up against in France. Foil Assisted Catamaran Yves Parlier's cat when up against the 60' tri's has done terribly-mainly because of the high drag region between 8 and 20 knots according to him. Location: Canada Sam Bradfield build a few hobies with foils that worked quite well. Earthrace » Thread Tools Show Printable Version Email this Page Display Modes Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode Search this Thread Advanced Search Similar Threads Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post Should Power Assited Systems be Allowed? Location: Slovenia foil assist With steps the wetted surface would come down from cca 1,75m2 to 0,55m2 + the foils ,if 70kg of foil lift is provided. Location: Cocoa Beach, Florida Your concept of using foils and steps together is interesting-Eugene Clement has done some pioneering work in that area.
On the sketches you see underwater hull cut abruptly ,that is because of the step that enables water release. Location: Cocoa Beach, Florida Thanks-I'm familiar with steps on powerboats. Here is a proboat article on Clements mods to Plums theory on hulls using a very small single step. Guest625101138 Previous Member   The break even for displacement versus foiling for a lightweight person, say 70kg, will be around 300W if paddling. Location: Cocoa Beach, Florida Rick, what do you think of the idea of combining a step or steps with foils for a relatively specific speed?
Paddling is not as efficient as pedalling plus there is speed variation with paddling so I expect the break even to be higher; more like 300W. The lowest drag hull for a single 70kg person in the 6.5 to 7 knot range has a beam around 220mm. I do not believe all avenues to reduce skin friction have been explored so hull steps might be worth trying. We have been working on various designs ,and i have to say that at certain point the design of a long slim boat just turns unpractical ,suddenly you are designing a 7+m long and 22cm wide hull that can with additional(not with equal power) just go maybe 1knot faster in short races than a 5,2 m long x 40 wide K1 kayak . A single seat rowing skiff ,just tops a K1 sprint boat ,while having more power due to rower using legs more and long paddles and having a much longer and slimer hull ,that is unstable for anything else but rowing,but the gain is small ,hull un-practicaly large ,with lots of wetted surface and heavy definetly not something for car toping. But that is a different story what i am aiming for is a kayak.So power is limited also hulls longer than 6m with waterline width of waterlines under 36cm wide are not proving beneficial ,a 30cm waterline hull ends up offering drag reductions only at lower end of the speed scale while wetted surface bites back later. Guest625101138 Previous Member   I thought you were looking at ways to go faster in medium duration events.
The length for lowest drag does not start reducing till above 7 to 8kts depending on pilot weight. On a pedal boat the thrust is almost continuous so it is possible to balance a slender hull. Pedal boats hold current sprint record of 18.5kts and current 24hr distance record of 245km. Series 62 Model 4666 » Thread Tools Show Printable Version Email this Page Display Modes Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode Search this Thread Advanced Search Similar Threads Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post Hydrofoil assisted catamarans. I am just looking if there are ways of gaining some speed in ways outside of the basic hull design that is already close to what it can be done and only small incremental gains are possible.
Guest625101138 Previous Member   The advantages of recumbents cycles are well known. Irrespective of the position with bikes, the advantages of pedalling are more extensive in a boat.


Rowing uses leg muscles but if you really think about it how dumb is it to face backwards when you are the pilot as well as the engine.
If you are permitted to race a pedal powered boat then you should give it a go before you dismiss it as not offering a significant advantage.
I am permitted to race in the unrestricted division of a 404km marathon event and my pedal powered boat does well against a wide variety of craft despite my interest being primarily the engineering rather than fitness or racing.
Ships gave up paddles over a century ago in favour of more efficient and effective propeller propulsion. If you know what power you can sustain in a recumbent position I can give you a calm water performance estimate within about 2% of what you will achieve in actual. Location: Slovenia Kayak competitions,marathons and triathlons and multisport(mostly include some level III WW) events only allow kayaks and canoes on some races even sculls but so far the rowing boats are not doing well and even so kayaks canoes and sculls would fall in separate categories on the same race.
I am probably also biased towards kayaks and canoes and come from paddling background ,and really wouldn't consider anything else. But back to the subject i am now on the look out for a good low speed foil section for my application ,from there i can do more calculation and more likely than not try out some wild concoctions using one of my 2nd quality kayaks( built out of basalt fibre vacum infused vinlyester) that has been lying around for a while and can be cut and modified. Chris Ostlind Previous Member   There simply is not enough power available from a human being, even a really fit one, to provide the necessary thrust for more than an hour, or so. I like that you're wondering about it, Canoemaker, but it's not going to go anywhere with current human physiology. Ricks' comment about the tiniest bit of weed, or crap in the water, that finds its way onto the leading edge of the foils is as poignant as it gets.
Location: Slovenia That is the reason i first only considered foil assisted instead of full foiling concept ,here foils would only provide part of the lift to reduce wetted surface,also such concept in theory allows for more or less power vs more or less all or nothing fully foiling boat. Guest625101138 Previous Member   If you want to do some calculations then you can work on a lift to drag of around 20 for a well designed foil configuration to suit the application. If you have a length constrained boat, with say a mass of 800N and the drag exceeds 40N, then you might find a point where foil assist will reduce total drag.
If you know the drag on your hull at the target speed then you can do some quick calculations to determine if you are likely to get benefit from a well designed foil assist set up. If you do not know the drag on the hull then there are various ways to calculate it accurately. Is that pic from murray red cross 400+km marathon,so where are Rambo and Clarkie in their OC-2 Yes from 2008. There are over 200 boats compete and they start in groups of about 20 to 30 boats depending on expected time to finish to avoid congestion in the narrow river. The organisation and fundraising has been taken over by YMCA this year so it is no longer a Red Cross run event.
Guest625101138 Previous Member   Attached is a photo of the OC2 with pink deck. The foils i am looking for will have thickness above 14% ,first sort of worst case calculations we did with a basic Clark Y foil in very blunt configuration(one 500x100mm wing) so that we can see if there is any merit to the concept(in real configuration we would use very high aspect ratio foil),it showed that 1 knot increase is possible,due to drag reduction of 7N,i have looked at both 6412 and H105 sections that are used on moths but these are better used on faster craft.I need something more suitable for low speed use. Guest625101138 Previous Member   You have a very draggy hull or are overestimating the benefit of the foil if you are showing an improvement of 1 knot. I did not look at many options but I doubt that you will do much better than the 16-series I posted earlier. The Clark-Y data is attached but even this will be optimistic because the higher lift coefficient means it will be shorter and the RE# will be lower.
Location: Slovenia hull is as slippery as they come but i admit that the drag analyis of the hull on reduced displacments might be flawed as the software probably doest handle thin long hull very well. Originally Posted by Canoemaker hull is as slippery as they come but i admit that the drag analyis of the hull on reduced displacments might be flawed as the software probably doest handle thin long hull very well. Location: USA Weed and trash in the water is a more significant issue for props than for paddling. Special surfaces have been tried on displacement hulls which might give the slight advantage 'noe maker has been looking for. This is a script on how to aim anatomy and MultiSurface for hydrofoil design & Analysis. The float dagger asymmetric foils are relatively small (305 x 39mm chord to thickness and based on NACA65-412 and only a metre long overall with 300mm bury through the floats) - because I wanted a boat that would lift off only in stronger winds (12-14 knots) and in lighter conditions the foils, being small, would not drag too much.
Mast height, I don't have but looks around 8 metres, sail area is 16.4 m2, una rig, displacement with single crew is 222 kgs and Bruce No. Original wing mast was larger chord and much heavier, at least twice as much and came from a quite famous kiwi B Class cat named Boadicea designed by Keith McKinnven. Our turn guide Randy Chan toured United States of America along the harbors of Hong Kong to understand the trading vessels docked. Airboat plz supporter bounce what kinda boat you lookin to make i suffer built a couple gassers.
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I was interested in exactly how you would implement them at such a low speed and why you thought multiple steps would be required. 2-3 steps to compensate for some displacment wariation as kayaks pump up and down while paddling.
2-3 steps to compensate for some draft variation as kayaks pump up and down while paddling.


So for me a foil assist that would gain more than 1 knot with reasonable handling properties is already something worth considering.
If you can sustain more than 250W for the duration of the race then you could consider going to a pedalled foiler.
If there is a length constraint then foiler might have an advantage at lower power level than 300W. You have the same problem with pedal powered boats ,you might have more power in your legs and a slimer ama suported hull but in practical terms ,you end up having a heavy boat ,that is inherently unstable,also imposible to stabilise with your body weight and i would be suprised if the boat could easly outrun surfskis in 1-2 h competition even more so in any other condition but flat water definetly not on open sea where amas would induce additional drag much of the time.
But canoes also have great tradition and people crossed and still do almost every expanse of water in them. This boils it all down to a purpose designed hull that is optimised for the target speeds as well as a really well made prop and drive system that is powered by pedals.
Foils on kayaks and stepped hulls with all of the ordinary drag signatures are Red Herring bait. Some folks really want to have foils on anything and everything, not recognizing that they just are not appropriate for most cases. Also am not trying to compete with other human power boats only kayaks and for well defined speeds. The float foils are set at 40 degrees and at 3 degrees angle of attack and they slope forward a few degrees to try and halt cavitation when passing through waves, only partially successful in larger waves. His foiler is the white boat with the folding foils - my boat Flash Harry is the red one - there is also a colour jpeg of my 11 x 11 metre foiler Misguided Angel too. Before the Tornadoes arrived Boadicea cleaned up all the B Class races, which was quite healthy in terms of numbers here in NZ until the Tornadoes took over. Just about accept sharp bows and nigh all throw expectant sterns with the after sampan boats. Easy to follow book of instructions with over cxx drawings and photos welded aluminum boat plans.
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The basic concept needs to be tested on an RC boat (like Parliers was) and then taken further. Full foiling even tough is more efficient is sort of all or nothing concept and the problem sustaining flight is not so much in power but constant powering of the boat over 1h+ time. Maybe you can partially overcome the wet entry business with sliding foils in cassettes, but now you've added weight, and complexity to what is an otherwise simple and elegant boat.
This is more pronounced with props on long trailing flex shafts, as there is a tendancy for floating and suspended debris to be gathered up and funneled into prop as the boat moves forward.
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DESIGN PARAMETER Hydrofoil It is amp queer operating room wing under weewee used to lift the boat’s. I've heard of a powerboat manufacturer(Hsucats?sp?) using a foil in combination with a catamaran configuration but don't know much about it.
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The inverted T is asymmetric and has a total span of 640mm tapering from 140mm at blade bottom to 40mm at the tips ? and is fixed at zero angle of attack. 116cc 14HP horizontal duplicate piston turning a XXII tetrad bladed C fiber airscrew all stainless sword tubing and. No flaps because I believe, no matter how superbly they are built, the slot will drag, but I could be wrong here.
In ultra light conditions, below 1 knot, my mate?s Finn will sneak away from Flash Harry but once there is two to three knots, Harry is faster ? and of course a lot faster as the wind increases.



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