First of all I work with MultiSurf, and because of that I have no problem with any surface in SW.
I don't know if i answer to all your question but I think that you have enough to tray to make some small boat. When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals.
Check the Aerohydro site they have a program for plate development called flattener, that works with surfaceworks. Jesse Caldera Boats 02-20-2006 02:19 PM One more note I should add about Solidworks. If you want parametric solid modelling, Alibre Design is quite simmilar to Sold Works at fraction of the cost, and Alibre Xpress is completely free. Robbi Chris Ostlind 02-24-2006 06:52 PM Call me Old School if you want, but I just don't get the reference from Caldera regarding Rhino in that classification. Is there an on-going fee to stay connected to the software after you have already plunked down the 5 large to get the package? It's my opinon that it's tough enough to make a living out of the small boat design business.
These are just a few of the issues to be addressed for the smaller scale designer in the trade. So, I'd say different school rather than old school and at this point in my career, Rhino is a real opportunity to have powerful modeling tools for what ends-up being very reasonable prices. Chris Ostlind Caldera Boats 02-25-2006 12:07 AM Rhino has its place as does pencil and paper.
When you combine this discussion with the one from a month or so back about the lack of integrity for swiping other people's hulls, one begins to get a very interesting picture of your person. When SolidWorks has an installed base of working seats that meet or exceed those of Rhino in NA applications, drop me another line and we can talk, so to speak. After I import my surfacworks surfaces in solidworks, I will try to fillet some of the edges. Originally Posted by Chris Ostlind Pardon me, Caldera, if I have a good irony chuckle on your behalf. I love surfaceworks, but Rhino seems like a good overall package - especially with their add in marine module and their prices.
Originally Posted by Chris Ostlind So, I'd say different school rather than old school and at this point in my career, Rhino is a real opportunity to have powerful modeling tools for what ends-up being very reasonable prices. Jesse Tim B 03-20-2006 05:15 AM I assume that the above boats all float on their marks and upright? Not to cast aspertion on good work, but it's very easy to draw pictures and not design boats. Any Marine design is done in Rhino Autocad gets used for dimensioning detailing and printing which Rhino is poor at. RE floating on their lines- Proteus Engineering has a great plug in for Rhino they call Phazer- it does a great job of hydrostatics. Phaser has become Rhino-Marine, it is a good hydrostatics addin with a nice output and free to trim stability curves. I not quite sure if this is nessecery because I am not that techno incline in this field yet. We would be employing an expat to do the design work but would consider what software first to better understand it. Thanks Raggi_Thor 03-28-2006 02:23 AM Rhino is easy to use if you know a little AutoCAD. I think it is important that you find software that you like to work with and suppliers that can support you. I saw yesterday a plug-in for Rhino that is supposed to open SolidWorks files directly too, haven't tried it yet but will.
Incidentally, STEP has worked the best (keeping the solids intact even, plus exporting assemblies), from SolidWorks to Rhino.
I have also been impressed with Alibre and have their basic design package (that came with Algor), but we settled on SolidWorks due to the wide acceptance of it despite the price difference.
My opinion is that no matter what design program I use, I will always have and recommend Rhino as a companion. So far playing around I have written a macro to export section lines from Rhino to Free!Ship for testing and so I can potentially export to Michlet.
Does anybody can give me an idea about how to structure the design, i.e., the hull, bulkheads, beams and deck all in one part (or body), or should they be separate bodies and be joined in an assembly?
You can make the hull in Rhino and then the other parts as separate files in SolidWorks or Alibre.
I would make a seperate part for each steel element you are going to use, this may seem excessive use of parts but it is the way solidworks expects you to build your model. I have been working with Solidworks and Rhino professionally and find it hard to compare the two.


Solidworks was developed to be a complete and parametric solution for mechanical design and i think they succeeded very well.
In general, a boat designer will always have to work with different software tools to get his job done. Originally Posted by SeaSpark I would make a seperate part for each steel element you are going to use, this may seem excessive use of parts but it is the way solidworks expects you to build your model. I have just on question for anyone who could answer to me, about unrolling the developable surfaces, I found that you can flatten just the simple curvature surfaces, but usually the bottom of hull has some double curvature shape, there is any way to get off from the designed model of boat the patterns for a double curved surfaces as long as Rhino doesn't flatten such surfaces ?
SolidWorks 2013 introduces a sketch entity type that was once the soledominion of expensive Class-A surface modeling systems of yesteryear: The Conic Section. As I learned in 10th grade, if you take a cone and slice it with a plane, depending on what angle you slice it at you will get a circle, an ellipse, a parabola, or a hyperbola. CAD jockeys really like conics (as these curves have been called) because they are more interesting than arcs, while being less cumbersome than splines. The two ends of the conic can be set tangent to the adjacent entities, just as you would with an arc or partial ellipse.
Jason Pancoast is Engineering Manager at CAPINC, a SolidWorks Value Added Reseller with locations across New England. CAPINCCAPINC was founded on one core principle: Provide the best solutions and services to assist our customers in designing and developing better products. I'm curious what people think about the design's performance (I'm trying to to design for aesthetics). PS - I'm a big believer in the opensource philosophy; my opinion is that more information sharing helps everyone including the person doing the sharing. Location: New Hampshire You should talk to either Retired Geek or John Lindahl, designer and builder respectively. Location: Austin Retired Geek was actually kind enough to give me a few pointers over email already (although that was on an earlier iteration of the design).
Location: Broken Bay, Australia I have a few thoughts, although I cannot model or drag simulate them, so they tend to be theoretical and anecdotal.
Your use of semi-circular sections below the DWL should give optimal performance in light air and smooth water.
Location: Broken Bay, Australia ps - I just had another look at the Tool website. Question for the gurus on this thread: assuming perfect control of reserve bouyancy, would it be better to have all of the hull below water - torpedo style? After sailing the LR3 at Lake Hartwell we found there were issues with the boat going downwind. The reverse bow has been discussed before and others have commented on the hazard it poses to other boats because a heavy collision will likely result in a hole below the waterline.
1) The boat is being designed for 1 or 2 person crew, that's one of the reasons I was attracted to the F16 class in the first place. Location: Austin Disregard that last part - the post was clipping some of your content. Those numbers help a ton, and I don't particularly like the idea of being that far forward, so thanks for pointing that out!
This has made full solid model rendering and final drawings a matter of days rather than weeks or months. It has a nice feature called 'lofted sheet' which is primarily used in sheet metal developement, but I have found this to be very useful in creating flat patterns for hull panels and strakes. Throwing large amounts of start-up dollars at software while expecting that expenditure to start creating cash flow is not a good business decision. I don't do boats over 25' right now and the really high horsepower packages are just not justified from my perspective.
By the way, Does your SolidWorks package have an integrated hydrostatic analysis package, or are you going to also pop for the Aerohydro thump-down and another 5 large to get that?
Could you share a few drawings with us, an IGES file so we can see the quality for ourselves in our cheapo Rhino packages? Rhodes Tim B 02-26-2006 01:50 PM This is an interesting argument, which I have been following for some time. What we all need is a package which gives good control over accurate surfaces and lets you draw interiors and the like with the minimum of fuss. I will not argue if others express a preference for another package, and I will not expect them to argue with me for expressing my preference.
IGES is a 'verbose' standard (makes big files) and seems to deal with surface definitions, not solids. I was very impressed- as an initial design tool, particularly for free, it is quite good, particularly for sailboats but it is very flexible!
For smaller boats its probably faster to do everything in Rhino, but it can be a very large file with many details.
The model will be more manageble and creating (and updating!) a bill of materials when ready is easy.


So many aspects of engineering are involved with boat design that i think there will never be one package that does it all. We engineered things like soap dispencers and an electric vehicle for parcel delivery, no boats.
These curves are called conic sections and you can read all about them on Wikipedia (which did not exist when I was in 10th grade). Many of us learned how to write and solve the formulas for conic sections while still in high school, unlike the higher math needed to manipulate cubic splines. It builds much like a 3-point-arc, but instead of adjusting a radius value, we adjust a parameter called Rho (?). If Rho is greater than 0.5, then the conic is a hyperbola (which we have never had before in SolidWorks!).
Unlike splines, you cannot clamp curvature continuity, but it still looks pretty darn good.
CAPINC provides premier solutions and services in New England to assist our customers in accelerating their design and development process for better mechanical products. Sie dienen dazu, unser Angebot effizienter zu gestalten und die Nutzerfreundlichkeit zu verbessern. Wave drag and hull speed at displacement speeds would indicate a straight stem to DWL - but then you end up with something like The Tool A Class - fast but not pretty. I still think the angularity of the bows jars with the lovely subtlety of the curves in the rest of the hulls, but the sheer functionality is obvious. After extruding your sketches do you just cut the part to the hullsurface to get the right bevel? As soon as you engage parametrics in the software scene, you jump into much bigger dollars. Once I got proficient at using it, I have had more drafting work than I can handle (other stuff besides boats).
And the price to get involved is only deductable from your tax filings if you first pay for it.
As far as I'm concerned, the only thing I have found against Rhino is that it doesn't run under Linux*. As far as I'm concerned, Rhino 3 is (pound for pound) one of the best peices of CAD software I have ever used. I do not mind if it is an old boat or some boat not built, I want it just to see the way you work with SolidWorks in a boat. That means conics, and their resulting surfaces, are fast and lightweight for our computers too.
Our award winning technical support team is comprised of industry experts with hundreds of years of combined practical experience in mechanical design, design validation and analysis, product data management, and technical communication. Durch die Nutzung dieser Website erklaren Sie sich mit der Verwendung von Cookies einverstanden. Should make the boat much more stable on those downwind runs and keep it's excellent upwind ability. Rhino comes at the problem differently and it's apparent that it works well, or so many NA shops and boat design outfits wouldn't be using it. I too have a strong preference for Rhino, but most of my mechanical work I now do in SolidWorks. The nature of their combined x-squared and y-squared terms means conics have a varying curvature, but do not ever change convexity like cubic splines can do.
This gives us an intuitive way to adjust the curvature of the conic without having to delve into which type of conic section it is, or what its mathematical eccentricity is. Then there is the old chestnut of angle of heel affecting the shape as well - are you planning on canting the hulls?
Development of plate I do in MS with position of frames which are imported from SW because MS-SW connection is live and hull surface is not dead.
Also remeber that any software used in your business can be considered a write-off business expense, so why not get the best?
I have also used SolidWorks to import Rhino surfaces and solids, not just surfaces, then create my drawing layouts instead of using AutoCAD. This allows us to create smooth, flowing blends, without worrying about wrinkles or dimples or other unruly spline behaviors. When it's time to show it on the boat, I export it via STEP to Rhino, it is more bullet proof when dealing with the surface model of the hull and of course does those great renderings with the water plane, etc especially using Flamingo. SW can change the position of a bulkhead or the height of a door just changing the distance instead of repeating the whole operation. The F18 (yes i know you're doing an F16) rule has max weights for the foils this weight would do until you've actually designed them.




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