The large diameter (vertical dimension on the right) is now 11", I never measure the smaller one. I also had a small aluminum computer fan in it originally to circulate the air but it tended to blow any dust onto places I didn't want it so I removed the fan. I'm thinking of digging out my old kayak paddle next time I go to the water, and seeing if I can get any satisfaction from that with the rowboat. It is shown with 3 holes for positions but I will likely just use one arc that covers all the space between the holes so you can position anywhere in the arc.
I've looked at these before; actually, it's the first thing I considered, but the prices drove me away . Most companies that make products we use, like nuts and bolts, gear boxes, on and on now offer their engineering drawings in Solidworks files so you can download the part and just add it to your boat. I have the main frame rail that I designed in about an hour as an edrawing that I can show you if your really interested. May last serious engineering project was all 3D down to 25mm piping but there was a team of draftsmen working on that.
Looking at this with more perspective, if I were to go with a paddlewheel or some other whirligig, I'd most assuredly have to hire out some of the fabrication to some custom shop, and what would that cost? I do not have any idea of your actual ability to calculate stresses so this might be telling you things you already know but you did ask for design review. When you are pedalling there are are high torsional loads imparted on the frame through offset loading from the feet. I can tell you from experience that there is nothing worse to pedal than a frame that twist as soon as you apply some load.
So one of the load cases is to compare deflection under torsional load of your flanged frame with that of a tubular frame of the same weight. As for the software, I have no idea of its price as I get copies for review purposes for my web site.
11:35 PM  Anyone with CAD or boat design software interested in helping me on a boat design?!
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. I've gotten a picture from a eBay seller that shows the underside of one of these pedal boats, so now I have a good idea how the hull is fashioned.
I've gotten to thinking that maybe steering could be more efficient and the pedaling mechanism made more stable (higher quality design), so that the plastic (or whatever hull material) and bearings almost NEVER wear out.
If you want an efficient boat, you will have to build it on your own like the rest of us here in this thread. Location: kent UK I have long been a bike rider living by water, i have always wanted to combine the two. 1.the prop shaft will have to leave the sprocket at an angle so that it can exit the hull in the water. If you feel uncomfortable using a steel ball bearing at the stern, there is a company selling affordable ball bearings in Delrin with ceramic balls.
The sidewinder is a simple way of doing a pedal drive system on a boat, that is if you want to have a crick in your neck. Rick did make a 90 deg gearbox using magnets instead of gears, was heavy and slipped a bit under high load. Location: Amersham bucks uk Waveless Concept I am always searching for the perfect pedal boat which should be fairly fast,manuverable, light and easy to transport. This initially appears to be full of new ideas but is in reality is a small pedal boat application of a displacement glider, that are normally motor driven boats around 10 m long. With the upper hull section similar to a planing hull, at maximum speed would this boat glide on the water surface.
The short boat length would help achieve planing but can this concept achieve the impossible. Location: USA The concept I was considering would not sap much power because the pitch would not project out from the surface of the shaft much. One thing I tested that was effective in calm conditions was a thin foil angled down into the water ahead of the shaft so flow forced weed up the blade. Location: Beaufort, SC and H'ville, NC I have spent some time recently looking at building a fast pedalboat and one of the first things that struck me was the irony that we are borrowing a drivetrain from a dynamically ballanced bicycle and attaching it to a hull borrowed from a scull or surf ski (which are also dynamically ballanced, as are competetive canoes an kayaks) and are producing craft in which the rider is not able to actively assist in ballancing the craft.
The cost in terms of drag penalty for keels, stable hull forms, proas, tris, and foil systems can be calculated fairly accurately for a specific speed and righting moment, and they are all depressingly large. With the cost of stability so high, I looked at getting the rider as low as possible, and it looks to me that if the rider's left heel goes all the way to the bottom of the main hull and you construct a sort of heel-bucket ama to acommodated the the right heel, there is a small savings in drag due to the lower stability required up to a draft of about 100mm.
Originally Posted by philSweet I have spent some time recently looking at building a fast pedalboat and one of the first things that struck me was the irony that we are borrowing a drivetrain from a dynamically ballanced bicycle and attaching it to a hull borrowed from a scull or surf ski (which are also dynamically ballanced, as are competetive canoes an kayaks) and are producing craft in which the rider is not able to actively assist in ballancing the craft. With the cost of stability so high, I looked at getting the rider as low as possible, and it looks to me that if the rider's left heel goes all the way to the bottom of the main hull and you construct a sort of heel-bucket ama to acommodated the the right heel, there is a small savings in drag due to the lower stability required up to a draft of about 400mm. The boats in the attached picture were dynamically stable but not particularly efficient for a number of reasons. With side mounted prop rotating it the right way you get torque that offsets the weight to the side.
The idea of using foils for leveling has been thought about but not tested to my knowledge.
Without the outriggers the boat is typically dynamically balanced by the pilot leaning and by the thrust from the propeller against the rudder.
With the outriggers there are no worries (or very few) about balance in waves of up to 5 or 6 feet, again depending on the direction relative to the boat.
Location: Beaufort, SC and H'ville, NC Porta, thanks for those two bits of info. I have found that I save more power with the dipping rudders rather than a permanently submerged rudder that would help with dynamic stability. Germany have built a fleet of 5, with a very slight size increase, a custom drive, with two pedal stations to one prop, an auxillary electric drive built into the rudder, plus solar charging, and accommodation for 4. Location: Huddersfield, UK Hi Ian -yes, I'd definitely want a more recumbent position for comfort, but I suppose people do cycle long distances on land with the upright saddle position.
Location: Huddersfield, UK Be careful which translation engine you use on the grune flotte website, btw. Although generally the google translator is better than Babel fish, Google comes out with this rather alarming special offer on the home page! Guest625101138 Previous Member   Have been on holidays up the east coast with V14. I took attached video of one outrigger while moving at 10kph to show how it occasionally kisses the water. This solves half of my sharing problem, the other half being the possibility of modifying the drawing and giving it back to the community. Originally Posted by Rick Willoughby Thought it would be a good idea to start a thread on pedal powered boats.
It is even more important for an Open Pedal Powered Boat, since it is is an architectural choice that involves modularity and reusability of components. I would like to evaluate different kinds of drive unit mountings in order to assess how they can fit an Open Pedal Powered Boat. It is a very easy to learn and use modeller, with lots of tricks up its sleeve, and can merrily skin 3d surfaces between profiles (it includes a terrain modeller which can generate from contours so should be able to handle hull shapes from lines.) It is fine for straightforward dimensioned 2d cad. Taken from 'How Tom beat Captain Najork and his hired sportsmen' by Russell Hoban, illustrated by Quentin Blake. With the dimensions you show for example 175 (7), what does the number in the brackets mean?
Location: Melbourne, Australia Seat position Does anyone know the best position for the seat in relation to the pedals. There is data that shows recumbent position has almost identical efficiency to upright position providing you are using cleats. The idea of using solar and human power to drive vehicles is nothing new but each new design that applies these principles is at least a step in the right direction – away from fossil fuels.
Perhaps the best part about these designs is that they push the boundaries of current thinking and appropriate green technologies for seemingly everyday uses. I am not sure how practical this designs are, I mean – is the solar power is ebough to run the boat?
Don't forget you would charge it up before you went out as well so you could get most of your traveling done without sun or pedals. Cand aveti nevoie de o masina de inchiriat de la oricare din cele doua aeroporturi (Baneasa sau Otopeni) apelati cu incredere la Rentacarfirst ce va pune la dispozitie cele mai bune oferte pentru inchirieri auto baneasa. Will be interested in what you come up with as I am still trying to track down that last 2%.


Not sure what is going on here as I would expect my figure to be the same as your static result.
Rick The differences between the two sets of results are mostly due to the inclusion of boundary layer displacement effects in Michlet.
I'm very pleased that you are getting good results from Michlet, but be a little careful when interpreting predictions.
Your Michlet results and my Flotilla predictions used the ITTC line to estimate skin-friction. As it happens though, the inclusion of squat moves the results in the right direction for your problem.
I'm toying with attaching a long 'whip' to my kayak rudder, so when I work the rudder back and forth the whip should give me some propulsion, and steering at the same time.
That might be handy for kayak fishing-where you want to be able to maneuver a little bit once you got 'fish on!' but still keep both hands free. The thickness of the leg is 32 mm and the (external) diameter of the propeller shaft case is 40 mm.
Location: Melbourne, Australia Drive legs Its seems to me the reason pedal boats have not really taken off is the lack of a reliable cost effective drive unit.
Having said that I have gone back to the drive in the boat, drive legs worked but boat was slower and the drive leg I made was large and heavy. I recommended that Greg K use a universal joint as I had had success with them at high rpm. Location: Melbourne, Australia Rev 5 No I don't have photos of this latest revision as I am still working on it.
With the two universals they should be set 90 degrees out of phase and ideally both have the same set angle. Again, I'd like to try the increased cadence (RPM) as I know from experience this smooths the torque peaks out in a big way. Once on foil, the energy demand drops as does the cadence and general level of effort therefore, loading.
Location: USA What about using a large and massive prop itself for the flywheel? Originally Posted by Jeremy Harris It'd be less effective (because of the lower RPM), but could you add a flywheel to the pedal cranks? There's been mention here before (by Rick, I think) of the effect of reduced flywheel effect on a pedal boat drive train, when compared with a bike. The prop is quite large at 50cm but it is downstream of the UJ's so wouldn't have the damping effect sought.
Higher cadence and technique has a huge influence on smoothing out peak torque loads associated with leg power. You see in the diagram, that for 0-5 knots my prop outperforms the 14 inch prop, while having nearly the same efficiency at 10 knots. When you experiment with Javaprop, you will see that the RC props outperform my props by more than 10% in efficiency for every point.
The bad thing is, that weed shedding takes more penalty than thought, so I am still experimenting with that.
For a 10 inch custom prop, the values would be better in all speed regimes, but with 7.8 inch the prop is small enough that is doesn't have to be retracted in shallow water and it can be 3D-printed for about 10$. If you don't need full power and have a short distance to navigate shallows, you might consider running the 20" in surface piercing mode. I've been looking around for something off the shelf and I like the bike powered catamaran type but not if I have to take off the wheels. Originally Posted by Scheny I would like to test 3D-printed prop design (made out of PA-6 Nylon).
Who would join me in my project to make a crowd-sourced high-end boat for the price of a normal bike? The prototype could be 3D printed, while the production could be fibre reinforced injection moulded. Location: south padre island, texas Shuttle-Bike has finally contacted me and answered some of my questions.
I'm all over looking at your design ideas and collaborating to a fruitful end (i.e.brainstorming)! Any time I get some idea that I think is new, I've learned to go look around before getting too excited about it. On a much larger many ton paddle wheeler this is not as big a concern of course, but on a small human powered pedal boat where optimum efficiency of the engine (stoker) is peddling at a fixed say 90 rpm, slippage might be a bigger issue.
Of the hundreds of old paddle wheel and human-powered boat patents I've seen, there are only a few using this angle concept.
Yeah, at a fixed cadence and gearing, you're quickly going to reach some maximum speed, just as with any other propulsion system.
The paddle shape I cut out was just a very crude preliminary demo, for my own visualization. Location: USA If you could mount the inclined paddlewheels so that you could vary the angle of attack in the water, then you could design the entire system around variable gearing to find the best efficiency for any given situation, load, etc. Dual inclined paddlewheels would eliminate any problems with directional stability when inclined 180 degrees opposite to each other (or would that be 90 degrees?). Location: Ohio I'm going to experiment with a small model, a little more refined version.
I have read through about 20 different design and build logs, some of them spanning 3-5 years and 3-4 revisions and everyone that starts out with complicated gearing systems etc. Also have added a CNC hot wire for foam so I can do the hulls up very accurately, as well as forms for the frame etc. Originally Posted by Village_Idiot If you could mount the inclined paddlewheels so that you could vary the angle of attack in the water, then you could design the entire system around variable gearing to find the best efficiency for any given situation, load, etc.
Finally, directional stability (aka 'tracking') has more to do with the boat's hull shape than it does with the chosen method of propulsion; you aren't going to cure a tracking problem by altering the orientation of its drive. Go back and look at the link posted by Tinhorn; it has just about everything you need to know, including excerpts from an old engineering manual with the formulas and procedure for designing a paddlewheel.
It's late now, but I'll see if I can't compile some of the more intriguing ideas for feathering floats and post them tomorrow. Curtis I was thinking that by adjusting the angle of your tilted wheel, say between 30 degrees and 60 degrees, you could vary the thrust depending on load and operator conditons. Originally Posted by clmanges Finally, directional stability (aka 'tracking') has more to do with the boat's hull shape than it does with the chosen method of propulsion; you aren't going to cure a tracking problem by altering the orientation of its drive. Curtis Again, depending on design of blades, if they are cupped or angled in some way, they could put a latitudinal thrust on the vessel and possibly affect tracking.
Curtis True, most gearing is wasted on the water, as it is usually an uphill climb (from an automobile's perspective). Looking at what I had drawn, I started to get a better understanding of what the wheel must do, and what it must not do. Some of your thinking above can be best looked at in terms of something like daylight savings time -- you can add something on one end, but you find out that you just lose it at the other end, and probably lose a little extra as well.
Now, since this is BG_Geno's thread, we might want to try to focus a little more on the specifics of his topic, but I'll leave that to him; he seems to be eager to absorb new ideas.
All in all, it sounds very much like the kind of contraption that would please the James Bond gadget guru Q.
It’s powered by twin propellers that are connected to a pedal belt and is entirely controlled by hand or pedal. The vessel managed an impressive 60 minutes under water in the Mediterranean waters off the Cote d’Azur this week. Currently my living room and kitchen are renovated and the boat has to wait for a few more weeks. The sideforces are here limited by the strength in your arm, as waterflow of the unbalanced rudder tries to push it back. Worth, Tx, USA There probably is an answer in the 1623 posts before yours in this thread. I'm probaly biased here but the simplest and least messy way is to use Ricks layout that he has on his V series of boats. Its Ricks V15 design, constuction is of 3mm plywood skin and frames using fibreglass for holding it together. If you study a fixed length solid rod radio antenna with exterior spiral contactor winding of the type that goes on trucks, you can get a better idea of the pitch and configuration of the augered shaft I think is suitable. ONE ADVANTAGE OF THE UPRIGHT POSITION IS NOT GETTING SOAKED BY WAVES AS IS OFTEN THE CASE FOR RECUMBENT BOATS.
This can be effective in waves of up to 3 feet, depending on their direction relative to the boat, the speed of the boat and the skills of the pilot.


The pedal position dosen't look comfortable with nothing to lean on, but that could be easily fixed. I'm sure the windage would be an issue in anything but sheltered waters, with the low power levels pedalling can sustain. I can't remember whether this is through the 'export' dialogue, (on the file menu) or as a screen dump, and its 12 years since I used Autocad in anger, so I'm pretty rusty! I actually tried a converter downloaded from the web with bad results, my oldish version of autocad doesn't export to jpg, but the screen dump (from the Operating System) gives an acceptable jpg. There are so many CAD programs and people tend to use the ones they are used to that it opens up another can of worms ( a bit like the open waterbike project ). It is not designed for naval architecture, and so won't generate any performance predictions - it is primarily aimed at architectural design.
Is there an optimum angle for the seat backrest, I have mine so that I can adjust it but am wondering if I am leaning too far back. One could envision a small fleet of these replacing rent-a-boats at various tourist destinations around the world.
The solar and pedal option just extends the range to as far as your feet and the sun will let you!
Rentacarfirst are cel mai diversificat portofoliu de masini cu reviziile la zi si va asteapta sa va bucurati de experienta inchirierii unei masini. Michlet and Flotilla are only mathematical models and they do not include many real world effects. If you wanted to improve correlations of your Michlet drag predictions, you should multiply them by the ratio of the total resistance with squat to that without squat from my results. Lamar, the small firm that developed it, has been testing it for a couple of years and it never broke nor jammed in operation.
I have gone about as far as I can with the current boat and this is its fifth configuration.
Maybe the blade positions could be configured to coordinate to smooth the cadence power strokes. The only drawback is, that it needs a gearing of 1:12, but with chain and gears it should still be possible.
You would need a way to pull up on your flex shaft, so only part of the prop is in the water. If you are interested we could make a custom prop designed for your boat and it would cost you only the printing fee (well below 50$ I guess).
Unluckily it is no fiber reinforced PA66-GF, but for my design with low disc load it should work with that material too.
It does address a couple of issues (splash, and especially wind resistance) that I had with putting a paddlewheel drive on my rowboat. An optimised monohull will require 40% less power to do the same speed as an optimised catamaran.
The size of the paddle is chosen from a formula, and it needs full immersion to perform as designed. A paddlewheel is not an airfoil, it's (usually) a flat board that you stick in the water and push. The bizarre machine, nicknamed ‘the Scubster’ can actually reach speeds of 5mph – if the pilot is fit enough – and can descend to a fairly respectable 20ft. Has plans useable for apedal powered boat that atomic number 53 americium realy impressed with. These rental boats are built in such way, that part count is minimized and parts are simple. If the bore is precise, it will seal enough and run smooth without too much additional drag. A bike crank with chain running to a 90 deg gearbox then a flexible shaft running down the side, no holes in the hull.
Would make a great alternative to a houseboat and probaly could be fitted to a car trailer.
With the seat height in relation to the axis of the pedal crank how low or high should this be. Still, you get to toss out the pricey gas costs associated with most water cruisers and relax in the sun when the weather is nice and pedal your way to shore when it isn’t.
Sufficient power storage is a must so that pedaling is kept to a minimum and done only in emergencies. I prefer Grigson's line, but that would probably give results that under-predict your experiments. Maybe with a belt drive cost could be kept down as well as weight, water getting in would not matter as much if all components were plastic and fibreglass.
It has two universal joints with the thrust being taken at the skeg, I tried the curved shaft in version 2 but the gearing let me down. Trying to drive one too fast would destroy the wheel, probably long before the engine ran out of torque. If you push it at any angle other than perpendicular, you waste power; it loses 'traction,' so to speak. After looking at the drawing, it began growing -- about fifty percent, so far -- not because I wanted it to, but because it had to in order to work.
The shaft can be either 8mm spring steel or 10mm aluminium, the prop size would depend on the gear ratio and amount of power you can produce. But I am thinking bits of entangled weed would not be drawn into the prop as much as a straight shaft.
But it does show the versatility of pedal power - the range from what you and Rick are doing, I guess I'm somewhere in the middle, and Escargot at the other end of the range.
Ashamed again ;-) I post the Open Waterbike proposal for the connection of a drive unit to a forward tube for Ian and other interested colleagues. There is no reason why users shouldn't modify and exchange drawings in the native sketchup format, however.
The open waterbike shows the bottom of the seat at the same level as the crank axis but a lot of boats have the seat much lower.
A drive leg that pivots up could be fitted to almost any canoe or kayak, for a receational boat speed is not so important. This layout is about as efficient as I can get and the most reliable, have gone for the fixed skeg so I can reverse easily. Hull can be roto-moulded, as it is already possible to make that ultralight too (low density core with hardened outside). What I was discovering is that 'folding' a cylindrical wheel into a cone introduces a new set of constraints on the design -- and I've barely begun exploring this in depth. No, PVC won't handle the stresses, I'm sure, LOL, and if you read their whole website, they built prototypes of aluminum, installed them on real boats, and drove them to failure to see where they broke before they made the final products out of stainless.
This is because weeds would stall as the slightly slippery gentle screw surface vigorously augers them upward.
So to be fully effective the blade needs to plunge deeper than wave troughs you will operate in. A lot of the touring canoes are beamy and very stable and I think would be much easier to move with a drive leg than with a paddle. Between the two gears, an 8mm aluminium flex (only 10°-15° over 2m length) rod should do the trick.
The ped There are or so free boat plans usable on the Here’s angstrom play I pedal boat plans from Simplicity Boats and here are close to more oldie freebies from. The boat is 5m long with a 300mm beam and two 2.4m outriggers, another advantage is the shaft can be lifted out of the water and the boat sit flat on the beach. Maybe they would become disentangled enough from the shaft in their attempted move against the flow of water to be blown away. The bow has to be the opposite of sharp, so that it does less harm in case of a collision or hard docking. But I may be wrong with some weed types, where you might just get a stationary buildup along the shaft itself causing drag from remaining wrapped on the shaft instead of being fed down into the prop.
I have a drill press, but not much else, no welder, and the worst is that I don't even have a good vise for that kind of work.



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