BTW, why do you have to screw up every post on this board, or better put, hijack every discussion where steel boats are discussed with the same old crap, fabled righting moments, your 11 month cruising year etc etc. As I point out in my book , there is a huge difference between resale value and resale price. My boats rarely change hands, and when they do come up for sale they sell quickly for many times whar t theri owner shav espent on them. You say a round bilged boat is only 160 hours more than the usual multi chined boat in terms of welding? We have been having a debate on another site about the difference between a yachtsman and a sailior. I get people who can't afford childish vanity , get their asses out to sea and off the treadmill, quickly and affordably.
If I won the lottery tomorrow I wouldn't choose a style over substanc eboat like t your over my own. Failure to think outside the box has grossly inflated the cost and time of building a steel boat , far beyond what many people can afford, while refusing to take advantage of the properties of steel. I remember building my first origami boat back in 1980 , in a shop where a qualified english shipwright was building a 30 ft wooden sloop. I refuse to build for style over substance or do anything that will undermine the function or seaworthiness of a boat. You say you can build a fairer , better looking boat by cutting a piece of steel into a bunch of smaller parts and welding them back together ?
By looking at your photos, Stu, my impression is that your buyers would expect new gear, whereas, Brent encourages the cheapest - albeit, quality - used equipment.
As with these other considerations, I really have no idea of how long it takes to complete a build in your yard, nor whether you build the complete boat or just the shell.
Gee, I have only been to Aus once, and it was only for a short time, but isn't damn near everywhere one sails considered "offshore"? Must have misunderstood the $20,000 to $40,000 boat budget thing, or, maybe that's the budget for a really, really small boat(with an eggbeater for an engine). One of the reasons I really like sailing is the camaraderie of sailors from all walks of life.
Location: British Columbia I don't charge owners for scrapyard or scrounging time. One doesn't have to be broke, just repect the resourcefullness of those who cruise that way, and refuse to let lack of money stop them from living their dreams.
A lot of round bilge boats particulalrly motor boats and work boats end up with a pair of stub bilge keels welded on just to damp the roll.
Are there any pics sighted along the chine of any BS boat that the chine and the bottom looks fair? There is not much to the internals and what little is there is deffinantly not dificult to fit to hull.
Please, don't try to read between the lines, but as one whom has built his hull and is a veteran steelworker, your assessment of the construction method, ergonomics, challenges, etc., will go far in consideration for those whom consider building by this method.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals.
Location: qudara island the boat is a brent swaine design but built by 2 local buidlers.
CatBuilder Previous Member   I may have missed it earlier, but was this hull free?
In my conversations with Brent, I wasn't aware he'd used the Origami method on boats much larger than 40'.
Location: British Columbia I understand the hull cost a fraction the price of the steel , not counting the time and welding rod. Princes Auto sells a wet sandblasting attachement for a pressure washer for wet sandblasting, for around $100.
With 12 percent of the earths surface being iron ore, it is definitely not a pollutant, and sand is definitley not. Location: Salish Sea But what of the existing paint on the hull that will end up in the drink? Originally Posted by HReeve But what of the existing paint on the hull that will end up in the drink? I would think that 4-6 evenly spaced on the hull would take care of any future corrosion issues. Secondly, wouldn't a concrete wash hold moisture against the steel, providing almost perfect conditions for severe, hidden corrosion? Location: British Columbia That could work, but with so much steel exposed they would corroded rather quickly. There is a good editorial in the latest 48 north about copper from boatyards and the bureaucratic hurdles they face. Location: British Columbia hey glass, just found this thread, You live in a nice remote place full of self sufficient people I'm sure someone on either quadra or cortes has a sandblasting pot (or you can build one), rent a big compressor for the weekend from CR gather some un-salted sand in town while you're there and blast the hull while there's no cabin, wasser tar paint is what I used on my boat, it's moisture cured and if you thin it down enough can be rolled and brushed It'll take you a day to blast and paint the inside another to do the outside if you want to do the outside (looks like you could get away without it on the outside) once you've got the first couple coats you're good, when you build the cabin either blast and paint your scraps before using them or buy wheel abraded and shop primed steel and just grind and paint the welds at the end of everyday.
Another thing I've thought about doing is building a trailer to accommodate my twin keeler, as no boat movers around these parts can do the twin keel thing, and there are enough of these around here that I could either sell it or rent it to recover the cost of building it, no problem.
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Location: qudara island thanks folks, i wish i could convey my dream in text but i cant, if i could, im sure most of you would approve. I knew a guy,despite my warnings figured it would be cool to just wirewheel his rusty and cheap steel sail boat.
I paid for all my steel to be blasted & primed before I started building, only had to blast small stuff myself.


Location: qudara island the guy who built it said he was planning on putting in a scremin jimmy engine.
I have read that to do so that the scantling proportions are slightly different then when the frames touch the plate. Location: Maryland If the transverse web frames don't have adequate shear connections to the plate, then the palte aspect ratio changes, which may change required thickness.
I have seen a few 4mm boats looking very dented and sorry after 30 years sure its not structural since your frames are so close together but very very cosmetic. If you have ever sailed around coral areas I recknon yu'd quickly change your view, thin plate has a habit of denting and catching rather than sliding past with a bit of deep scratching. Youre also going to have to keep those interior frames stringers and plate in tip top condition 3mm corrosion in 6mm still gives you a good margin and I've chipped enough rust inside boats to know how it corrodes when left.for a decade or two. Go heavy below use your 4mm and a mighty rubbing strake on the topsides and superstructure.
Chine hulls in thicker sheet seem the most sensible yacht steel designs I've seen robers 53 chine hulls consistently beat the radiused one in the club races and his replating will be soo much simpler when it comes.
Older boats, especially home builts were prone to rust, because very few were ever shotblasted in backyards. If you look at the photos elsewhere above on this page, there is one with three boats in it, a 38, 57 & 65ft - all raduis chined. On the outside they had a few spots on deck repainted, where the paint had worn off over the years but that was always on welded on eyebolts, cleats etc, fittings that should have been stainless anyway. Properly blasted and painted, rust is no longer an issue, and certainly not something that you would want to increase plating for these days.
So I was thinking to fully weld them, mig , and 1" intervals, not continuing untill the previous weld completely cold, so a bit here, then forwd, aft etc ! In my heyday as a builder we use to weld stringers; 50mm weld - 200mm spacing on one side and the same weld on the other side of stringer, spaced in between the weld opposite. By the way, after shotblasting to an approx spec SA2.5 (white metal) we sprayed the inside with coal tar epoxy to a thickness of about 140 - 170 micron. I'd intended to spray [ compressed air ] useing gear I owned already , but it seems I'll be hasseling my friend for use of his airless unit now !!. I haven't worked with 2 pack epoxy's before and realise they cure chemically within a time frame, so is it the same as washing out -- say enamel paint ?, that is, rinse out completely with apropriate thiners then blow it through the gun untill it runs clear !? The yards here often use Methyl Alcohol (Methylated spirits) as a cheap and effective way of cleaning up the unset mixed epoxy, the thinners are often too expensive for cleaning when you are blowing out spray paint equipment. Location: British Columbia Fairness of the chine , depends on how fair you cut it out , just like the edges of the plates on any framed boat.
I could show you some pretty rough, wavy , fully framed boats designed by Colvin, Roberts etc. If you have built one of my designs it wouldn't have taken you 7 years, when the shell takes only a week or two.
The big advantage of origami is that a fair , good looking hull can be built quickly and easily,anywhere ,without cover or any fancy tools . Get cruising with minimal requirements , like a roughed in interior, bare plywood, then sail off and embellish it in quiet peacefull anchorages, bit by bit ,as the materials are scrounged, treating the finishing like a hobby and a pleasure, rather than something you have to do before you are allowed to get any pleasure out of your labour. A veteran circumnavigator , he still wouldn't consider doing it any other way than origami.
It seems quite obvious that the main reason for your troubles is your inability to think outside the box and your slavish clinging to group think.Group think is exactly what has forced the price of boats far beyond what many can afford and forced many others deeply into debt. Minimising the amount of welding , cutting and fitting required is an easy way to keep a steel boat fair.
Everything but the cabin structure was cut with oxy-accetelene, didnt buy plasma till after decks were on. I cant say for sure why this one looks different compared to others the hull is basicly the same as the 31' or 36' but I did recut the chines a bit, when I first pulled it together I had a slight upward and inward hook in the center of chines so I used a batton and my eye to streighten them out. Single or multi chine doesnt make much diference to me, depends on the boat itself weather it looks good or not. On the loft floor yes but for first time origami builder working from measurments you cant very well see it. I was thinking that maybe using the Scheel keel bottoms on the outside of the twin keels may help a bit going to windward. The combination of hull rocker and width of the single keel, comming together ,is all the stiffness one needs in a single keel ,as long as it is long enough. LyndonJ The transverse webs were my idea, worked out a little better and gave me somthing to attach the floor angles to. All in all the 26 is a fun boat to build, relativly simple and quick if you keep working at it.
When welding sheet material together, say 12 gage and you need to weld two 4' x 8' sheets together end to end, whats the best method to minimize distortion ?
Please, get on your origami boat and sail back to that origami site where I believe you are god and what you preaches are accepted as gospel.
Many times I have let it go, only to have Lazyjack start it all up again with his goofy comments. They are well respected on the BC coast and worldwide by most experienced offshore cruisers. A yachtsman is a slave to his ego and the obsession with impressing others, often of little experience, thru childish theatrics. I have frequently turned down foolish requests in the past , and have always been glad I did. It is my understanding, however, that those whom build to Brent's plans spend an average of 3 to 5 years to complete, though some are faster, some slower & some never finish, just pass it on.


To him and many others who have experienced BC full time , like so many do the South Pacific, BC was all the paradise he needed. When you decided to build this boat, were you aware of Jack's alternative and prefered to have a single chine? As this thread began in the spirit of hull construction, why not discuss the nuances of why your hull is more pleasing to the eye than some similar origami boats? Frames and support and all be added after all this, but blasting and paint will give you an really good idea of what you're dealing with (if you don't already know) and it'll protect the inside while you build the cabin.
Beautiful neighborhood and views though Probably, Brent has always been supportive of people realizing their dream, even though no one was there to lend them that 100k. If you space your stringers, longitudinals a bit closer and add a few more frames, it is ok. I uasually sprayed (airless) the inside with a coaltar epoxy with a minimum thickness of 180 microns after blasted to spec SA2.5.
I've seen some guys using chemicals to remove rust prior to painting,others just wire brushing!!
If your stringers are docked solidly against the plating and the welding sequence carried out as above, you will have no movement between plating and stringer to crack your expensive epoxy. Needless to say an airless spray unit was used to elliminate air trapped under paint, especially in corners. Much cheaper as epoxy thinners and does a sterling job, and you can re-use it again; just pour the used thinners in a container, let it stand overnight and the following day all the old paint and residue will lie in the bottom. Being underwater, the only creatures who see it are the fish and I dont think they give a damn. Did clean and prep before welding together, took about 15 minutes per hull half and I would'nt do it without cleaning edges up first.
I do like the round chines though, If I do another origami boat I think I will do the split pipe or rolled chines. With twin keels , one has to be careful not to design keels that an anchor rode won't slip off.
If you take a look at the photo album in origamiboats site there are quite a few nice looking boats there. If you require further details regarding the transaction data, please contact the supplier directly. Leaving his comments unchallenged will cost the not so rich huge amounts of time and money. One very experienced veteran circumnavigator is on his third brentboat, another is on his second.
Your average client, probably, would prefer a new engine, not a used diesel, pulled out of an old Volkswagen Rabbit. We have a local legend - now deceased - who built his boats from logs off the beach, with hand tools. I realize that Jack may prefer to design only larger boats, I believe he made this clear to me when we met. Remember that the longitudinal stringer slots solidly into the frame and welded tight, meaning that the frame is not weakend.
Two, shows detail of stringer and frames on inside - note the hull plating sitting clear of the frames. Origami makes this much easier, but there are plenty of backyard builders who need a jump start to get the detailing done. Then , just before he started planking he watched me pull a 26 fot hull together in two days. You learn a lot , maintaining a boat over ten years, that you wouldn't in less than ten years. I don't have to charge clients to pay my rent when the work slows down, nor wear and tear on my tools. I wonder how much is from ferries, and big ships , which move year round, far more than any yacht.
Wasser paints (604-291-8242 supplier for BC, can be picked up in esquimalt) were made for painting bridges and oil rigs between tides and are designed for cold wet applications. If you look carefully, you can see in the right hand top corner the hull touching the frame. A German aluminium boat that did well in the one ton cup in Auckland in the early 70's looked like a bucket that had got caught in a buffalo stampede. Had his boat been built as I designed it , he would have had plenty of headroom and the hatch would have been every bit as easy to climb thru as any sliding hatch.
If you start with an ugly shape , you can throw all the money in the world at her and she'll still be ugly.
If I spend 20K on a boat of the same size , I'll have no problem getting double that amount in resale .
By the same token, I've known well-heeled owners of very expensive boats, whom have much sailing knowledge and experience. Again , boaters are being used as scapegoats for landlubbers and corporations, to enable politicoes to slime out of doing anything effective or reality based. That is why they are considerd by most cruisers as some of the best looking boats out there, no bondo needed. Then again, who cares whether the buyer is a sailor or a yachtsman, as long as they pay you to build them a boat.



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