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Location: cruising, Australia Still struggling with the blender interface - maybe I am tooo much of a retard???? Location: US Software aids ROV design Marine Simulation has released Volume Two of the ROVsim Undersea Pilot series The Undersea Pilot series is a collection of remotely operated (submerged) vehicle (ROV) simulators intended for ROV and marine professionals and based on Marine Simulation's ROVsim simulator. Chris Ostlind Previous Member   For what it's worth, I concur with Herron's use of Hulls as his sketch pad for doodling ideas and then porting them to a higher plane of software. In Freeship I sometimes feel that I can't control the lines of my designs as much as I would like. I hope this makes sense because I would really like to know whether a (cheap) package with such features exists. Acat design process for a novice » Thread Tools Show Printable Version Email this Page Display Modes Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode Search this Thread Advanced Search Similar Threads Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post Best Marine Design Software for Hull Modeling?
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Ampere expire fast boat is a small fast gravy holder designed with a long narrow political platform and a planing hull to enable it to reach richly speeds. I have already built one hull like this and want to design another hull of similar shape but different dimensions.
Location: Cathlamet, WA It looks to me like freeship will do this but only if you import coordinates of the sheer, chine and fairbody.
Location: Cathlamet, WA I will try to explain what I meant in the previous post. My results from trying to arrive at a developed surface using the SURFACE features of freeship have not been successful. I have found that if I type up a text file as described in the manual that lists the coordinates of the points for the fairbody, chine and sheer at each station from stern to bow it appears that freeship will do just what you are wanting to do. After you have your text file, start freeship and click on the FILE menu, click on IMPORT, click on CHINES, and then select your text file. There is a dialogue box where you can input where you want the stations, waterlines and buttocks drawn.
Form the (very) limited amount of playing Ive done with it, it looks pretty cool, I especially like the updating SAcuve and basic hydros as you modify the design.
Originally Posted by fastfish666 When I last tried an IGES export (Free!SHIP 2.3) the program locked up -- it happened with some of the sample files -- never was able to get an IGES output. I create surfaces for the new curve set and end up with a very clean, very fair hull that is ready to be analyzed hydrostatically by RhinoMarine.
I use Rhino to develp the rest of the structure to complete form as well as render the design for presentation graphics. The images attached are for a solo tripping canoe that was designed and rendered in less than two hours complete with full hydrostatics from two independent, confirmation sources.
Steve lewisboats View Public Profile View lewisboats's Website View lewisboats's Gallery Find all posts by lewisboats Page 1 of 2 1 2 > « Best Marine Design Software for Hull Modeling? Location: College Station, TX Best Software for Modeling an Historic Wooden Ship? Hydrostatics and performance are completely unnecessary for my project, I simply need to create an accurate and manipulable model from measurements taken off of the actual intact hull. I have looked into Rhino, AutoCAD, and SolidWorks and have found each to have pros and cons for this project.
My understanding is the Maritime Studies program East Carolina University uses Rhino in their Ship Reconstruction course. I think that either Rhino or SolidWorks will be able to do what I need, I am just getting a feel for what boat modeling experts prefer and why. Originally Posted by TANSL My experience is that when you are free to create a model, Rhino far exceeds AutoCAD; Rhino is similar to many other programs but it is much cheaper. Originally Posted by DCockey Could you provide more information on why you find using AutoCad to exactly copy an exisiting boat easier than Rhino?
Location: Spain See attached a file with some of the models, created with AutoCAD, I used to carry out some of those studies that a NA is forced to make in his tremendous career. Location: New Zealand I have used Autocad and Rhino a fair bit, and I?v also had a bit of a crack at Solidworks and Catia (its big brother).
ACad and Rhino use fundamentally different methodologies from Solidworks in that they are basically ?electronic pencils?, the models are not smart.
Also, the print drawings from Solidworks are ?smart? ?so when the model changes the print drawing update as well. Rhino on the other hand is particularly good at producing and editing arbitrary shapes, and not so good at producing printed drawings. My workflow has typically been to build a 3d model in Rhino and then draft and export it to Acad for paper drawings if required, or export direct to manufacturing without paper drawings. Purchase cost is a consideration as well ?Rhino is a fraction of the cost of ACad or Solidworks. Certainly for me Rhino is the go-to tool for most CAD work, and is also something of an industry standard. PS- what I say above is just my opinion based on my experience, there are many people doing spectacular things with ACad (and solidworks as well). Location: Spain I fully agree with all that RThompson says, and I think he has very objectively explained the situation.
Autodesk has not recently acquired CATIA, nor do I believe it will, in the foreseeable future - CATIA being Dassault's flagship product on whose engine development some of its other products depend. That being said, Autodesk has recently acquired the maker of T-Splines (whose name escapes me now), a very popular plugin for Rhinoceros, and that purchase has stirred some waters, so maybe that was the acquisition DCockey was referring to. To follow up on your post, CAD software is usually divided by two main criteria: whether it is 2D or 3D, and whether it represents its model as an explicit or as a parametric model. CATIA - full parametric representation (CATIA however, handles large assemblies much(!) better than any of above, including SolidWorks).
McNeel also said once in some interview that it is their strategy not to try to compete with products that already have established themselves, but to try to make a product that will fill the gaps feature-wise, that others lack.
Oh, I forgot to mention - Autocad since version 2013, has added some nice 3D features, including a much better spline editing and NURBS support. NX (formerly Unigraphics) is another major player in the 3D CAD arena which provides both arbitrary surface capabilities and parametrics. Rhino has a history feature which is different than parametrics but does link geometry to the geometry it is based on for certain commands.
My experience with parametrics is that the time required to set up the parametric relationships and the overhead is worthwhile if a series of configurations will be designed with the same relationships between features, and for simple, fixed relationships between features. Absolutely new to Rhino - modifying imported DXF » Thread Tools Show Printable Version Email this Page Display Modes Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode Search this Thread Advanced Search Similar Threads Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post Best Marine Design Software for Hull Modeling? The same is not just confined to the cars or bikes, but also to other means of transport like boats. This new concept boat by industrial designer Andrew Bedov, promises to be an eye catcher and designed with traffic stopping looks. Lordship Park is a large Victorian House in North London spread over four distinctly styled floors.This interior is its first floor which is done in 60?s futuristic style. When at rest, a surfers weight is borne entirely by the buoyant force (also depending on how much beer you drank the night before).
At low speeds every hull acts as a displacement hull, meaning that the buoyant force is mainly responsible for supporting the surfer.
A fluid flowing (water) past the surface of a body (surfer + surfboard) exerts surface force on it. In contrast, the buoyant force decreases as the hull lifts out of the water decreasing the displaced volume.
This is the reason that surfboards with lots of rocker need more speed and their no rocker cousins scream across the water.
The major difference between a planing surfboard hull and a displacement hull is the way in which the surfboard travels through the water. At high speeds a displacement hull’s tail will sink down lower and lower as a result of the “hole” created in the water as the surfboard moves forward. A planing hull, on the other hand, will have a flat or concave bottom contour and plane up on top of the water. Displacement hulls push through the water as they have no hydrodynamic lift, or the surfboard does not rise out of the water as speed increases.
The hull design (shape) does not limit the maximum attainable speed but does affect the power required for it to get on plane (on top of the water). Semi-displacement or semi-planing hulls have features of both planing and displacement hulls. There is not one hull design characteristic that differentiates semi-displacement from semi-planing hull. The greater the hydrodynamic lift and higher the hull design speed the more likely it will be referred to as a semi-planing hull.
I came across this blog post by Steven Mast of Mast Surfboards and it is an excellent discussion of the topic.


Old, soft edged boards are the same, as are any true displacement hulls being produced today. Now I’m sure I’ll get some flak for this, but displacement hulls, by their very nature, are not as fast as planing hulls (editors note: .
Another thing I’ll take flak for, and I’m saying it anyway, Greg Liddle did not invent the displacement hull surfboard. All displacement hulls, although arguably not “modified transitional displacement hulls”, whatever that means. I (even after researching and writing it) have to reread it sometimes to understand it too. I am totally with you on this, my experience is that a board reacts differently in a turn vs. Putting an edge on a tail does not automatically turn the board into a PH—totally agree. All surfboards (regardless of the intentions, theories, or fantasies of their designers) plane on the wave face.
Most simmons hulls I see are single concave, but I spoke to a guy in the water who was riding one with a v hull.
Location: Milwaukee, WI Water tanks are replaced when they are corrode and leak. Boston Previous Member   while I wouldnt go so far as the previous I am also planning a build for a live aboard, although mines going to be along the lines of the old style commuter yachts.
Find someone you trust, get self educated as to what you basically want and go in with a succinct but flexible plan. Location: Michigan Whos job is gonna be rounding up two of every animal to put aboard?
Ill be building it myself as having been involved in construction my whole life I can assure you if you want something done right you really do need to do it yourself.
Am working up the funds now and should be starting in the next year or two depends on what the economy does. Im developing the modifications that will make it seaworthy and will be presenting them to a NA eventually once I have a grip on what my options are and how they interact with the rest of the boat. Location: Michigan Well good luck, that would take one man a lifetime to design and build a quality boat like that, and about 250,000 - 500,000 or more depending on what materials are used and such.
Other than that Im loading up a futon, a folding table and chairs, a cooler, a grill, a mini fridge, speakers and a radio, a captians chair, and chicks. Now this is a houseboat, that runs on an outboard and can actually navigate rivers and small bays too. Location: Gulf Coast Poly Pontoons I am currently looking for house boat plans too. Location: Eustis, FL Those old Whit designs are little more then floating Winnebagos. Originally Posted by PAR Now this is a houseboat, that runs on an outboard and can actually navigate rivers and small bays too. Diagonals And Offset Tables » Thread Tools Show Printable Version Email this Page Display Modes Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode Search this Thread Advanced Search Similar Threads Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post Has anyone here started a boat building business from scratch? By implementing the very latest technologies for real-time 3D visualisation, it is able to simulate a wide range of mission variables: from changing currents and visibility, to electronics and gear failures. My biggest concern with using software to design this boat is that the sheets will be somewhat convex due to warping the bottom.
If I understand your reply correctly, freeship will convert the hull shape drawing into flat sheet dimensions, but may or may not compensate for the convex sheets. Now I understand that the subdivision surfaces used in Fee!SHIP can only be approximated by NURBS but has anyone successfully been able to get an IGES nurb model out of it, and if so what are the tricks? Hulls has a very simple hydrostatic analysis function, but it really only serves to get you in the ballpark and the data it reveals is not as in-depth as you will find in FreeShip.
Once the panels are nested, the design will be ready to take to a CNC shop for cutting and construction. Rhino has considerably better capabilities for modeling arbitrarially shaped 3d geometry than AutoCad.
But if you have to copy EXACTLY an existing boat, AutoCAD is going to allow you it with less effort than Rhino.
It's the standard for creating 2D drawings in many industries, particularly architecture and building construction.
My understanding is it uses primarialy solid modeler vs surface modeler paradigms, and the primary use is the design of mechanical parts. I know they are not as nice as those obtained with Rhino, but what I have always needed is a very good and reliable model that would allow me to perform calculations. That is to say in order to change the dimensions of something you have drawn you erase it and draw it again.
In the example of drawing a square: you draw a rectangular shape of arbitrary dimensions, then apply the side lengths to it to make it the size you want. However, the added ?smarts? of Solidworks comes at a cost of overheads; (I expect) in terms of computer power and also how much time is spent in building the model.
Incidentally, David, I understand Catia and Solidworks are owned by Dassault Systemes which is in competition with Autodesk.
For instance if Record History is used with the Loft command the resulting surface and subsequently one of the curves used by Loft is modified, the lofted surface will alter to continue to match the curve.
This design does not ride high on the water like a planing hull, instead plowing through and parting the water. There are displacement hulls, planing hulls and as usually is the case, some variant of the two.
The very nature of the release provided by that edge, by definition puts that board into planing mode.
As soon as they get going, the tail end of the board starts submarining and they can literally walk to the nose and go. As soon as you put an edge at the tail, you release the water and the board begins to plane. They may “feel” faster in a section, but without the release, they are constantly dragging more than a sharp edged board would. He refined it to an amazing degree, made it work in a short package, championing it when it was completely against the trends of the time, but have you ever seen a Weber Foil? But i still don’t understand the general accepted theory that as soon as you put an edge on the tail it turns into a planing hull.
What I would strongly recommend is hangin out and reading up on a lot of different threads here. Lots of folks live on houseboats and so can you, just that if your designing your own and its your first, your going to be making lots of mistakes and you need someone to be watching out for you.
I hope to be on the water by June 10th and house part built by July 4th so I can go out and watch fireworks on the lake. The pontoons and their support framing will account for about 12% of the total build effort required on a vessel as you've described. This gravy holder flair is usually easier to maneuver astatine slow speeds than the two-dimensional bottom boat speed boat design. Will these software packages compensate for that and still provide correct cutting dimensions for flat sheets?
The resultant curves have way too many control points, so I delete about two thirds of them and then fair the curves as closely as possible to their original shape. Freeship has become a truly unique and wonderful addition to the workflow in my shop design environment.
I also added a seat, pedaling station and retractable outriggers: This image shows the outriggers in the retracted position. For example to draw a square: you draw a square at the dimensions you want it, to change its dimensions you erase it and draw it again at different dimensions the same as you would drawing with a pencil on paper.
If you subsequently want to change its dimensions you edit its dimension parameters (and the size of the square will automatically update).
Their contours can be associated with some dimensions that, when changed, change the shape of the object.
Robert (Bob) McNeel has started in Autocad's customer support, and from there moved to found his own firm. AutoDesk acquired Alias several years ago, and Alisa is more a direct competitor to Rhino than Catia. Then there is Grasshopper which Rhino is currently developing and which is explicitly parametric. It contrasts with the drag force, which is the component of the surface force parallel to the flow direction.
Think of an ocean liner moving through the deep ocean versus a speed boat racing around a lake. The modern surfboard, most “hulls” included, balance these principles to achieve the desired effect or feel.


On the contrary, I think his boards are brilliant and have been a huge design influence for me.
A displacement hull works more by pushing the water around it’s hull and through the rails and tail, where as a planing hull works more by channeling the water directly through the hull. Put the spoon face up (like a v-hull), and the curvature of the spoon allows it to wobble effortlessly. My theory is dont cheep out on the guy watching your back, you can build it yourself out of all kinds of funky stuff but get an NA to watch out for you or one of those mistakes may cost you or your family more than you can afford to loose.
Maybe someone has a persepective that will help both of us with using the right hull or pontoon design to suit your needs.
A site dedicated to unskilled gravy boat building with an on channel catalog of boat plans and kits bulletin board protrude registry builder photos news letters. Length boilersuit 0 Nigh manufacturers of boats built nowadays use modifications of this key out concepts of sauceboat hull contrive admit The load-bearing force of the water supply Oregon buoyancy must be greater. I have never used any boat design software, so I do not understand the capabilities of any of the software packages. A reverse chine is kind of hard to explain but it is a long thin (almost flat) section of the bottom sheets at the chine. The purpose of the outriggers is to providemore stability when standing up or moving about the boat. The capabilities of Alias and Rhino are very similar though Alias is considerably more expensive than Rhino. If it's a mechanical engineering type object which is a combination of geometric features such as extrusions, holes, slots, chamfers, fillets, tapers, etc than that is probably correct. I am not speaking of the false metacentre as we normally use, but the real metacentre at every heel of the boat. One of his client groups were naval architects, and Rhinoceros was from the start developed with them in mind, amongst others. I had not heard about AutoDesk's purchase of T-Splines but my guess is they will offer the T-Splines capability in Alias.
A displacement hull has a theoretical hull speed, above which the water actually sucks the hull deeper into the water (I’m simplifying here).
The feeling of a well balance hull is one of the great pleasures of surfing that most people fail to credit.
A small amount of edge in the tail of a displacement hull will not convert the entire board, it will still act as a DH. I plan on taking my projector and Xbox and playing on a 6' screen in the middle of the lake!!! I mainly appreciate the fact that I can draw through 4 view ports with multiple construction planes with minimal effort.
The reason I ask these questions is that I don't want to spend a bunch of time trying to learn the software, when in my case I may be better off to spend that time building a scale model of the boat and take the flat sheet dimensions from the model.
The normal position when I am sitting in thepedal station, or sleeping is retracted as shown above.
The low cost version of Alias lacks some of the capabilities of Rhino though for most boat related purposes is probably very adequate. But for objects with arbitrary and complex surface shapes which are common in boat and ship hulls then the surface modeling paradigms are generally more efficient. Surfing one well takes a different approach, especially if you are stepping off a thruster.
If you were going for a hard back foot turn with little else board in the water than the tail only then you could call that planing, otherwise it would still feel and act like a DH majority of the time. I have been building custom structures for years in my neck of the woods, and grew up on the water, even so, I plan on getting a naval architect to assist me and check everything Im planning, a second and informed opinion is invaluable in a one off custom. Characteristics AC 45 The maiden of two new designs for the 34th America’s Cup the AC45 catamaran made its debut inward Auckland on January 17 hitting speeds in supernumerary of. Outboard of each of the bottom sheets is a 6" wide sheet at the chine that is almost flat (angled downward several degrees on the outside edge). The buoyant outrigger hulls in the retractedposition should also assist in up-righting the boat upon a capsize. At anything above the theoretical hull speed, the boat begins to submarine, actually being pulled deeper into the water. This long skinny almost flat reverse chine sheet runs the full length of the chine, about 6" wide at the stern, narrowing down to a point at the bow. Starting with a table of ofsets I draw frames in AutoCAD and then passed them to Rhino to get surfaces. For my 4 or 5 last projects I have used surfaces created with AutoCAd 2012, exporting them as iges files to MaxSurf. If the boat were to capsize with the outriggers extended, the mechanism forretracting them should allow for underwater operation. I would envision a rope, pulleys and hand-cranktype of mechanism for extending and retracting the outriggers (like the mechanism used for sails). The rear compartment is water-tight when the door betweenthe rear compartment and the pedaling station is closed. A disadvantage of using this configuration to sleep, is the inconvenience of having toopen the hatch to look out for ships through the bubble. If the boat is being operated with the canopy top open,it would be important to make sure that both hatches to the forward and rear compartments are closed and sealed,in the event of a capsize.
It would be advantageous to be able to use the rounded top as head-room for crawling intothese compartments. The advantage of this is the convenience of getting upduring a sleep to look through the bubble to look for traffic.
The disadvantageis that is the pedaling station is allowed to get wet when pedaling with the canopy top open, water would getinto the supplies and equipment in the rear.
I think sleeping configuration A would work better because it would ensure that thesleeping area is always kept dry. Perhaps a second small bubble could be placed over the rear sleepingcompartment, or some small windows in the rounded top.This animation shows 2 ways in which the outriggers could extend andretract, along with how the canopy top would retract. Operation of it could be ropes, pulleys and a hand crank.The animation shows how the mono outrigger swings into extended positionvia the swing arm.
I would also want to be able to steer from the sleeping cabin to keep the bow pointed into the on-comming waves. Once the vector (direction the traffic is going) is known, I could simply pedal my boat away from the vector in a perpendicular line. Just pedal your ass off heading due west, and see where you end up, don't waste energy and time correcting your heading for a specific destination. If youre going to spend 40-50,000 dollars and a few years of effort to be out there, I just think it makes sense to think a bit more about what you're going to get out of being there, not just about making it to the other side. I would tend to make the outriggers fixed structures - less to go wrong, stronger and you wont have to worry about your canopy getting in the way - the drag will be neglegible .
If none make sure they are up to the task and built simple and very strong - they will take a beating.
Be mindfull of the volume of water that is likely to get into the hull - it will not be calm weather if this happens and you will need a means of getting this water out or stopping alot of it getting in. You could afford somne legal windage towards the bow to help keep her pointing down wind whilst asleep or resting - consider autohelm if you are carrying enough power - I am convinced for solo row thins device would not only save distance but if you were able to keep your boat pointed down wind this would also increase boat speed during down time. The Woodvale boats sometimes popped along at 2.5 to 3 knots by pointing them downwind with their natural windage.
Calculate the right size of sea anchor for the weight and bouyancy of your craft - to small and its not worth having as it will not bring the craft perpinticular to the direction of the waves - too large and it may start dragging you under. If you get your sea anchor deep enough you may even find you are able to MAKE ground against the wind with it deployed - this happened to me at Cape Finisterre. Cooking is another thing to consider - force10 gimballed single burner stove is good and takes standard propane 500g propane- each gas bottle lasted me a week to ten days.
This is probably stating the obvious again but the canopy should maybe flip backwards and up with some goretex or canvas sprayboards at the side -this will give a degree of protection to you in larger breaking following seas - again this needs to be very strong if it is your only means of keeping the water out. The canopy should also have some form of emergency release incase it jams - or you build another means of escape.
Batteries in EPRIB's only last for 48 hours max - I would put 20, not 2 flares into your grab bag (the military have very good lightweight miniflares) and a mini hand pumped watermaker may weigh less that emergency water.
It wouldn't hurt to have a few rope handgrips on the outside of the hull - you may need to get out and clean of razor barnicles in the last week or so. Antifouling, regrettfully, does not seem to keep these little critters off terribly effectively unless you have stronger stuff state side. This may give slightly higher speed numbers than I have given but my numbers are for smooth water and waves will help or hinder.




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