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Location: Bellingham WA My preference would be to go with 2 sheets and then I could come up with whatever else was needed from scraps or, at worst, a trip to the re-store.
As for the cockpit ring, I prefer to make them out of strips of wood steamed and then glued together, but that's just a personal preference. Location: Beaufort, SC and H'ville, NC LP I really like the design, and the plate packing is impressive. I have to agree that I'm not a fan of these butt joints either, but(t) I don't see any way around them except to develope a full length panel, but I'll still have a joint, scarf, butt or otherwise. Location: Beaufort, SC and H'ville, NC You mentioned a question about bend radius. Location: Bellingham WA Either that or go completely the other way and use a puzzle joint and two different kinds of wood to accentuate the difference.
Location: WNY I think I'm more concerned with the effort and difficulty in bending the radius rather than whether or not it's physically possible.
I've been looking at the butt joints on the little yak and I don't think they are all that obtrusive. Location: Alliston, Ontario, Canada When bending wood into an arc of constant radius the amount of torque is constant but the force required increases considerably at the edge of the panel.
In the case of plywood stiffness is influenced to a lesser extent by the number and thickness of the veneers.
Location: Bellingham WA I did some looking around and you can get 4x10', 12', 16', and 24' marine plywood in various thicknesses.
When I was out paddling yesterday I hit a rock hard enough to leave bits of plastic hull floating in the water which got me to wondering about just how durable is marine plywood?
Location: Alliston, Ontario, Canada - I dunno, it seems more logical to wonder about the plastic hull's durability to me.
Location: WNY Would having your trailer fail catastophically and dump your 16' strip built sailboat on the highway and dragging it until you could get stopped count? When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. The hull your suggesting then is symetrical about the lateral axis as well as the longitudinal axis. If a hull needs to be assymetric fore and aft, would you move max beam to a location where it places Center of Bouyancy as needed and replace L with L(forward)*2 for the front and L(aft)*2 for the back? Originally Posted by LP The hull your suggesting then is symetrical about the lateral axis as well as the longitudinal axis. Originally Posted by LP If a hull needs to be assymetric fore and aft, would you move max beam to a location where it places Center of Bouyancy as needed and replace L with L(forward)*2 for the front and L(aft)*2 for the back?
The choice of maximum beam, and the location of the LCB etc, depends on the paddler's anthropometry (limb lengths, their weights and centres of gravity) and the paddler's style (i.e. Originally Posted by cthippo Hmmm, I weigh more than your entire design displacement, and that's before gear. The boat I'm building is a 16' SOF 'yak which I envisioned as a long distance cargo hauler for kayak camping. So, all that said, 12' (or 11' 12" as your program calls it ) might be a good compromise.
Location: Gulf Coast USA LP, will you be posting the Freeship file for the version shown in posts #12 and #14 in this thread? I love my Emotion Edge and that's part of why I'm excited about LPs design is that it's the only other boat I've seen that shares the design philosophy. Again, this is a fine design question that depends on many factors apart from hydrodynamic drag. Intuitively, it makes sense and falls right in with my questioning about the assymetry of most hulls. Right now, I've got everthing where it would fit into the two sheets, but I've got two deck joints on either side deck and the canted frame that goes behind the seat would have to be pieced together. For multihulls, most of these parameters (with the exception of waterline beam) apply to the boat as a whole. Of course, there are more than a few ways to state displacement, but only two- the volume displacement and the displacement mass, both at the design waterline- are fair points of comparison between different boats.
The total volume of water displaced by the boat when she's sitting on her design waterline. The weight of the boat when she leaves the build shed, before there's any personal gear brought aboard and before any fuel or water are put in the tanks.
Although it's important to determine mLCC when designing and building a boat, it'll never be sailed this light. The weight of the boat with (usually) half-full tanks, a standard complement of essential gear, and a small crew. The length from the forward point of the design waterline (same as for LWL) to the centre of the rudder stock. The length from the foremost point of the deck to the aftmost point of the deck; it leaves out reverse-sloping transoms and most types of integral pulpits.
Marina administrators often like to use the total length of the boat, including bowsprits, boomkins, pulpits, protruding sterndrives, the trailer tongue, and other length-extenders that would be considered "cheating" if you used them to describe your boat to a friend. At Marsh Design, the model number is the LOA in centimetres, using the standard definition given above.
The maximum width of the boat, excluding rub rails or lifeline stanchions that may protrude past the edge of the hull. The width of the waterplane when the boat is loaded to the design waterline shown on the plans. The depth of water needed to float the boat, when it's loaded to its design displacement and sitting on its design waterline. In a boat with retractable appendages (rudder, daggerboards, outboard or sterndrive engine), the depth needed to float the boat when all these appendages are fully retracted. Most of the time, the maximum (normal) draught, plus a comfortable margin, is the figure of interest. Wetted surface area is the total surface area of the hull and appendages below the waterline. Any surface that's in contact with the water causes drag; frictional resistance depends on how much surface area is in contact with the water. In a sailboat, frictional drag usually dominates at low speeds, so minimal wetted surface is important to light-air performance. In faster powerboats, and even some sailboats, the hull will climb on plane as it accelerates. Wetted surface area is, not coincidentally, the area that needs to be covered by antifouling paint. Usually, the waterline dimensions LWL and BWL are used for monohulls, or for a single hull of a multihull. Bottom loading is the displacement mass divided by the area of the planing surface (usually somewhat less than the total wetted surface).
Since the area of the planing surface constantly varies, it's common to just use BWL * LWL as the reference area. Bottom loading is a very useful figure when trying to determine how well a hull will plane. Location: Spain boatbuilder41, not many people pay attention to fishing vessels, in its design, operation and management but, to me, they are very charming boats.
Location: panama city florida Fishing boats are very charming, i try to encourage the ole time characteristicd of commercial boats in my new builds. And they usually have two decks: main deck between 3-5 meters from baseline, and an upper deck 2 meters over main deck. Despite of I like the shape a lot, although I think that bulbous is not needed because I did some calculus about my ship that I am posting in the next post.
How density of MDO are bigger than fish and the volume of tanks needed are more bigger than cellar, we have the critical load condition when we have 100% fuel capacity in port before going out to fish (0% fish capacity). Location: PIRAEUS - GREECE Question With all my respect is it normal to calculate the Fuel capacity at 250m? ? A very sensitive point to fishing vessel design is that you obliged to avoid large changes on freeboard height because of fuel load variation. Originally Posted by Adler With all my respect is it normal to calculate the Fuel capacity at 250m? ? Location: Madrid And What way do you take to make a previous estability calculus??
Originally Posted by Adler What will be happened with the stability on heavy seas at 25% of Fuel Capacity?
Originally Posted by Adler A very sensitive point to fishing vessel design is that you obliged to avoid large changes on freeboard height because of fuel load variation.
Location: Spain Adler, everything you say is very reasonable but not only in fishing but in any ship, you need always consider the worst loading condition and study its stabilityt.
As the load line, the only thing is to take care not to immerse the maximum freeboard line. Originally Posted by TANSL I have implemented 5 or 6 bow bulbous in existing fishing vessels, between 22 and 25 m. Question about resin and blushing » Thread Tools Show Printable Version Email this Page Display Modes Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode Search this Thread Advanced Search Similar Threads Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post The Open Trawler Project! Location: Trondheim, NORWAY I think a cruising speed around 20 knots is more than enough. Location: Australia As always Tom's bang on the money with all his comments. However, it was definitely not a boat for doing extended open-water passages, where it might be necessary to slow to low planing speeds.

For this (if you set aside true displacement boats) then you really want a boat that will be both efficient and comfortable at anything from 10 to 20 knots. Here you have the lines for the before mentioned WHIO, designed by Bill Simpson & Peter Sewell. In the pursuit of lighteness, she even doesn't have a steering wheel, but a wooden staff mounted to starboard of the steering position.
What about this design [quote=Guillermo]Having opened a thread at the Sailboats forum about small seaworthy cruisers, I've considered the oportunity of also studying this concept for the motoring side of it. But something caught my eye in the drawings on the link to the Naiad that you posted, is that the shaft appears to be set at an angle. Location: Pontevedra, Spain Pocket cruisers Having opened a thread at the Sailboats forum about small seaworthy cruisers, I've considered the oportunity of also studying this concept for the motoring side of it. So I propose now a discussion about 'pocket motor cruisers' understanding the term as motor boats under 30' able to do extended coastal crusing for a family (Up to 4 people), so not runabouts or dayboats, in a safe and efficient way.
The idea is to gather here what has and is been done around this concept and discuss their pros and cons, as well as the concept itself.
To begin with, I propose to have a look at WHIO, a very nice design from New Zealand, winning the Jens Hansen Cup for overall winner at the 2006 Seresin Estate NZ Antique and Classic.
In easy sea conditions she cruises comfortably at 15 knots and 12 in heavier conditions, Whio rides smoothly with very little pounding.
Originally Posted by tom28571 Are you proposing a discussion of Peter's boat or boats for coastal cruising in general? Location: Oriental, NC On the home page of the forum, look down near the bottom at the Option One thread.
But what I'm looking for is to show up what boats are in the market already (or in designer's boards), under 30', be them trailerable or not, not price limit.
So, this is not a thread for designers only, but for everybody just wanting to share boats they know within the scope of the thread, and discuss about them. Location: Pontevedra, Spain Some very nice pocket motor cruisers from Paul Gartside. Location: Oriental, NC To make any headway, you need to do like Peter Sewell and set some goals that define the boat. In the powerboat world there are displacement boats, semi displacement or semi planing boats and full planing boats.
Location: Australia I too think you need to narrow your parameters somewhat guillermo.
Willard 30 is a very nice displacement long range small cruiser, much in the line I think this kind of boats should be for load carrying abbility (so allowing for long periods without re-provisioning) and fuel efficient motoring. Location: Australia on that basis, there are any number of boats to choose from - thousands in fact.
Location: Oriental, NC The following is excerpted from some of my other stuff but I think it fits here. This common characteristic is never relayed to a novice boat buyer by dealers or the sales brochures. Semi planing boats will run in the intermediate speed range but do require higher power and fuel relative to displacement boats.
One thing to gather from the above is that your top speed range falls right where many (if not most) commercial boats that offer the amenities that you want are just getting onto plane. It's impossible to say anything about boats without personal wishes and prejudices getting into it. Probably the quickest way to narrow the choices is to decide that the boat need not be trailerable.
The problem that I see is that there is no reasonable margin between minimum planing speed and top speed. My boats have full planing hulls and will operate smoothly and economically at any speed up to about 23mph but I don't think they will satisfy your other desires for cruising amenities. Below is the link to a file server where anyone could download 40 seconds movie clip of the screen capture, where the hull is rotated in real time.
I could also upload heeled drawings if anyone would want to give me any constructive advice. Location: UK I do think you need to spend a bit more time on focussing your design's aims. When designing a boat to a development class rule then that task is relatively simple - you want a boat that is fast enough to win races, but not so diffcult to sail that it will lose races. With a recreational boat the challenge is a lot more complicated - and maybe mnore interesting. BUt take a look around your local sailing scene, maybe think about some of the factors I've posted above, and maybe even talk to some people about their boats. I belong to a small yachting club and routinely sail small craft such as Sunfish, Laser and occasional other small boats when guest sailors stop by. Now, I am tired to hike out all the times and develop steel abs better than those of Susanne Sommer's.
I would like to have as big boat as possible, as light as possible, unsinkable with positive flotation and be able to relax sailing. I also would like to have a ballasted and retractable keel, most likely the one that swings up in case I hit an obstruction underwater. I also would like to have to skegs in front of two rudders, so the boat stays upright during low tide. I plan to sail heeled in most circumstances, and ability to close sailing is very important. Location: * Progress Print Here are some more information about my project.
You should scrap the idea of dual rudders unless you just like the idea of excess drag on this type of boat. I suggest you spend some time studying actual linesplans of boats before you try moving forward. Originally Posted by Paul B You seem to have designed a very slow, tippy boat that will be difficult to control downwind.
Originally Posted by Paul B Your bow is much too full for the type of boat you are designing.
Originally Posted by Paul B Your curve of areas should look something like the reverse of the curve you initially had. Originally Posted by Paul B How much ballast are you planning (as a percentage of overall dspl)? Considering the design displacement of 0.4 tonnes that leaves about 250 lbs for the ballasted keel (approx. Originally Posted by Paul B You should scrap the idea of dual rudders unless you just like the idea of excess drag on this type of boat. Originally Posted by Paul B I suggest you spend some time studying actual linesplans of boats before you try moving forward. Originally Posted by kvsgkvng The Boat ??????????????????250 lbs Sounds like you have things all figured out. Originally Posted by kvsgkvng I think this seems to be a beamy boat, why do you say it is tippy? PS- your boat has a RA(righting arm) 16% longer than the Albacore so if the CE of your sail area was at the same height as the Albacore you could carry 139 sq.ft. Originally Posted by Petros kvsgkvng, why don't you just find the plans for an already proven design about the size you want, and alter the intirior arrangement to suit your needs.
Location: Eustis, FL Why would you ever have this shaped dinghy, over at anything remotely close to 20 degrees? For example 4 mm ply with a 2 mm core is about x1.5 as stiff as 4 mm ply with 3 equal thickness veneers, when the bend axis is parallel to the face grain.
You can boil marine ply and it won't delaminate, wonder how many plastics would put up with that threatment. Michlet and Godzilla can help to give you a start, but then there are a myriad of other factors to consider that are not as easily quantified. It's a little wide, but I actually wanted a little extra capacity and stability because I want to take my young daughter out with me. In the case of trimarans and proas, waterline beam and length are stated separately for the outriggers, and wetted surface includes as much of the boat as would be in the water in normal operating conditions.
The rest, although important and helpful when used properly, can be deceptive when seen alone. Performance ratios calculated using the dry weight are worse than useless; nevertheless, some marketing materials list only this weight and numbers based on it in an attempt to trick the buyer into thinking the boat is faster and sportier than it really is. This is the absolute lightest weight the boat is ever likely to be sailed at, and performance ratios based on mMOC can be deceptively racy. Most of the discrepancies have to do with whether stern platforms and bow pulpits are "integral parts of the hull" or are bolted on separately. Usually includes any bow or stern appendages that are a structurally integral part of the hull (eg.
Used mainly for large ships, and rarely mentioned aboard anything under a hundred feet or so.
This is usually some combination of LOA, LWL and various parameters describing the shape of the bow and stern overhangs.
As with length, there are a few ways to define beam, depending on what you need the number for. It gives some indication of how spacious the interior will be, and how wide a slip needs to be to accommodate the boat. The former contributes to the resistance; the latter contributes to the multihull's righting moment and therefore its sail-carrying power.

Since a powerboat doesn't need to stand up to a full press of sail, initial stability (due mainly to form stability, or hull shape) is more a matter of preference- although there are long-standing guidelines for what works well in a given situation. A wider running surface gives more planing lift, but also presents more area for the hull to pound on when bashing through waves. Tmin is relevant only for a handful of boat types, and then only in those specific conditions when you can safely run with the keel, rudders or engine retracted. It should include both sides of the rudder and keel, and if the boat has multiple daggerboards, the given wetted surface area usually includes as many foils as would be used simultaneously. Once on plane, wave-making resistance drops off dramatically, while frictional resistance increases.
It's therefore a useful quantity to know when figuring out how long it will take, and how much it will cost, to paint the boat. This usually implies less wave-making resistance, and thus more efficient high-speed performance, but also suggests reduced load-carrying ability for a given length. Some large, efficient long-range cruisers fall in this range, along with many racing monohulls. For a boat that must entertain guests at the dock but will rarely be used in rough weather or at high speeds, this may be a significant advantage. Higher bottom loading indicates that more lift must be produced by a given size of planing surface, so the boat will have to run faster or at a steeper trim angle to get on plane. A boat whose bottom loading is much less than her competitors' will be quicker to pop onto plane and better at low to moderate speeds, but may have a bouncy ride in rough weather. Given enough power, it may run OK at high speed, but will be a dog from 8 to 20 knots or so. On a 10 to 15 m boat, this bottom loading would indicate slight overloading and poor low-to-moderate speed performance, and on a 20 m boat would imply typical, but unremarkable, planing performance. I do not believe very much in their beneficial effect but the fact is that the owners are left very happy. As it is consumed it is replaced with catch, keeping the displacement more or less constant. I bought the Searay in Sydney, where we operated it for a couple of years before bringing it home to Tasmania, where we used it for a further couple. It has about the same fuel consumption as WHIO, a higher top speed and meets the 4 person accommodation requirement. I think it would be great if you broad here design and test details related with load and speed, as those are not clear in your web pages. I assume its been done to try to offset the torque of the propeller, but I'd be concerned, particularly at speed that it might have some rather dire consequences Yes, I find that quite strange, too.
In this case WHIO was conceived for a couple cruising in style in warm climates, probably being rather a day boat with cruising capabilities, which would be in the 'lower' end of this thread's purposes. Accurate measurements have not been made for higher speeds but is estimated that it should not be greater that 6 to 7 litres per hour at 17 knots. I love the type, and adding some sail assisting-roll damping rig (not as much as to be called motorsailers), makes them an excellent option, in my opinion. Fast cruising motor boats are also an interesting possibility for extended cruising, if you are in areas where provisions can be easily made, so you do not need to overload the boat. Boats have to be designed with fuel consumption efectiveness (reasonability?) in mind, as they have to be intended primarily as extended cruising boats, even if it is in short trips from harbour to harbour. I'm interested in every iteration of your design as you learn more and narrow down your requirements to something you're satisfied with.
If you consider the role of a professional Naval architect then really your ultimate target is to design boats that people will want to buy - otherwise you don't get paid! The more naive amongst the rabid racers will think that any old tub will do, and in the past, shamefully, sometimes any old tub has been all that's on offer. Try and identify its strengths and weaknesses against your aims, and then draw up a second one that addresses the weaknesses without compromising the strengths too much.
Launch able by one person (maybe by two: husband and wife) -- limitation in size and build materials.
If traveling overnight, must have a shelter -- most likely boom tent, perhaps a small compartment if it has spare weight capacity. Two persons must be able to sail this vessel at cruising in protected coastal waters and occasional errands in the open water under good weather conditions. So I am planning to have a sailing shell first with a keel, two skeg-ruder combination (maybe one ruder without a skeg), good rig and possible boom tent. It's absolutely meaningless to create pictures of things you don't understand, unless of course, you're just interested in pictures. You are getting closer to reality with this one but you have not quite arrived at the summum bonum of design excellence. It's an easier design task than competitive rowing, where the rowers move large distances on their sliding seats, but it can make a difference of a few percent. Marsh Design site are for the boat at its fully loaded design displacement, including full tanks, full crew, and typical cargo.
Or "Take LOA in feet, add swim platform but not anchor pulpit, round to nearest inch, state as FtIn". BOA, plus a comfortable margin, is the dimension used when determining whether the boat can pass through a canal or fit in a slip.
All other things being equal, the hull with more form stability will be less tender and better able to stand up to a powerful sail plan. Very few retractable keel monohulls, for example, can be sailed with the keel up (although many centreboard boats can run downwind with the board retracted).
Wetted surface is once again an important factor, but since part of the hull is now out of the water, it's not the same wetted surface as in the at-rest condition! The slimmer boat, though, will generally have the advantage when fuel is expensive or when the weather picks up. We must confirm, of course, that the hull shape is amenable to planing- straight buttocks, roughly prismatic afterbody, etc.- before this ratio will be of much use. In boats from 10 to 15 m LOA, bottom loadings in this range are typical and indicate reasonable performance. Even if the boat is impossible, the student must realize and communicate this circumstance. I could keep it on the plane at slower speeds than this by trimming in the leg and applying plenty of angle to the trim tabs - I could get it down to around 12 or 13 knots in fact.
We often spent up to a fortnight on board, but almost all of the cruising was in sheltered waterways where the biggest seas we were likely to encounter were the wakes from passing boats. It is a GRP production boat so available to many who might not want to build their own, or can't afford a custom boat. In about mid July we will have one(single diesel version) in Vancouver BC where more extensive sea trials will be conducted.
With a range of under 200nm and only 90 litres of water, you'd probably be a bit hard pressed to be completely autonomous for a week.
Something like a marinas-hopping-mixed-with-some-overnight-stays-at-anchor cruising scheme.
So my asking for 18-20 kn in full load condition pursued to screen for well conceived and built boats. My apologies for somewhat flashy sponsor advertisements on this site, but it is free and it works well.
And what is critically important in dinghy design is that the boat is sailed heeled in light air which reduces the actual prismatic in the 14, your boat and my boat. Tinker with rocker and transom width and observe the beautiful heeled waterlines that such a boat can develope. A catenary provides constant pressure between the mold and sheet, a property I have used on occasion to simplify clamping arrangements. The one exception is the light-ship displacement figure, which is (roughly) the weight of the fully fitted out, but unloaded, boat as it leaves the construction shed. Eventually, you and the marina manager will grudgingly agree to use LOA, at which point a long and drawn-out argument will ensue over whether that anchor pulpit really is "integral to the hull".
Or, "Take LOD in dekametres, add pulpit but not swim platform, round to nearest multiple of five". Making a hull wider, though, will generally increase wave-making resistance, and often increases wetted surface area- thus increasing frictional resistance. Finding the right trade-off is one of those "no right answer" optimization problems that make good design tricky. You only need to avoid the effect of free surface, but that is an issue that is usually not a problem. That's fairly safe with a low probability of cracking; I've exceeded it many times but it gets chancy.
All answers and comments, either positive or negative; encouraging or not, forced me to think a little and really to understand what I was trying to do. I wonder if you would find if I am grossly off somewhere in my estimate and patiently awaiting your punch on my chin.
Again, I am discussing only the empty hull which I try to bring to a more final shape and keep on going.

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