Pontoon boat rental gulf shores 36542

Atlanta wooden boat association membership
Originally Posted by LyndonJ I'd stick to conventional methods, you'l have an asset then that you can relise when you sell.
On a steel boat, where you build in your details and weld them down, which would have cost exponentially more in a non metal boat, the finished steel work is thus a far greater portion of the finished boat, than it is for non metal boats. As I point out in my book, people often fail to differentiate between resale value and resale price. The fact that McNaughton is too dense to comprehend basic geometric principles has nothing to do with structural reality.
The picture above is of wooden planking ,which has no strength across the planks , which is exactly what frames were developed for. There is nothing floppy about a finished origami hull.Such comments reveal an absolute naivety about the subject.
As for the cost beatup, you were asked before just how much it would really cost on another thread (in time and dollars) to add 5 or 6 transverse bar frames to a 36 foot steel boat.
Nobody said that origami hulls are floppier, they are just weaker becasue the framing is floppier than a conventional frame. But you need to accept that some of your reasoning doesn't scale well to larger boats with much higher loads. Location: British Columbia Points 1 and 2 apply equally to longitudinals, as they are equally supported by their being welded to the hull plate, with the added structural advantage of going around a curve, yet you insist on calculating them as stand alone, with no attachment to, or support from, the hull plate. It doesn't cost much to put 6 transverse frames in a hull, once it has been pulled together using origami methods, altho I know one guy who turned a couple of frames into a several week project, to increase his total income for the job.The point I am making is, if you put the frames up first, then try put the plate on to fit the frames, the cost and time goes up exponentially. Originally Posted by Brent Swain Points 1 and 2 apply equally to longitudinals, as they are equally supported by their being welded to the hull plate, with the added structural advantage of going around a curve, yet you insist on calculating them as stand alone, with no attachment to, or support from, the hull plate. The relevance of frames is quite necessary to make the whole ship an almost corrugate systeme, with all the strength in all the direction.
Now when the round plate is transformed in chine on your design, you have an intense stress point there, and that is no good practice. As for your other boat, they all are ceiled in wood inside and seams to cost much more that a Swan.
Fisherman and commercial are tough with the money, every cent is acconted, but you don't know that. By the way I would like to mention, a vessel of a certain size is never ever designed by one person, same for building. We may argue about his biased opinions, about his terribly obvious lack of understanding some basic engineering, but we cannot argue that he does it to harm or insult other members. I know there are visitors here which cannot really get it together, where is the knowledge and where the anecdote. Reverse clipper bows and wine glass cross sections would be difficult but practically any other single and multi chine hull form can be done in origami. It's clear that the longitudinals go into tension, suffer stress reversals and consequently deflect more that a pre bent frame. Originally Posted by whoosh … do these boats come with lines, as iines if one wanted to draw a body plan, for tankage floors frames etc? That can be done by the software, or you can build chine model and take the strakes patterns from it.. Originally Posted by dskira When I designed and latter on built (sorry, I built too, but that is not relevant since you want to be the only one here) if we don't put frames the vessel will have been not able to do its work properly due to wickness, let alone having the cargo capacity strength needed to pay for itself and being safe. Daniel As I only build one hull a year, a couple of weeks work, and on every on I work with the owner, who's lifelong dreams are coming true , quickly before his eyes, it never gets boring.
The end of the chine where the cone begins is solid plate once the chine ends, not weld, so one is not dependent on the weld for strength. Where Paul's mast goes thru the deck, a large doubler of heavier plate, plus some flat bars on edge eliminates the chances of anything wobbling . The only compression on the mast is only the weight of the mast, rigging and sails on a junk rig , unlike the tremendous compression on a marconi rig. Colvin estimates 1,000 hours for a hull and deck, something origami lets you do put together in under 100 hours. As I pointed out in the cabin top example, a curve drastically increases the stiffness of a piece of plate .
None of my boats have ever had problems getting insurance at the best rates, or passing survey.
Originally Posted by Brent Swain None of my boats have ever had problems Hope it will stay that way. Location: British Columbia I have made wineglass sterns by welding the last few inches of centreline first, before cranking the deadrise out with the hydraulic jack. As Herreschoff pointed out , in smaller boats, clipper bows tend to stop a boat dead in her tracks when they hit a steep head sea. Many of my hulls have saved their owners from the disasters which would have resulted in most other cruising boats out there.
The hull will need a lot of framing following on from that picture and I'm skeptical that in the long run with a vessel that size it might just re-allocate the build time.
Roberts has a method which is said to be fast, its bottom plate then framing then the rest built bottom up. I have read that to do so that the scantling proportions are slightly different then when the frames touch the plate.
Location: Maryland If the transverse web frames don't have adequate shear connections to the plate, then the palte aspect ratio changes, which may change required thickness.
I have seen a few 4mm boats looking very dented and sorry after 30 years sure its not structural since your frames are so close together but very very cosmetic. If you have ever sailed around coral areas I recknon yu'd quickly change your view, thin plate has a habit of denting and catching rather than sliding past with a bit of deep scratching. Youre also going to have to keep those interior frames stringers and plate in tip top condition 3mm corrosion in 6mm still gives you a good margin and I've chipped enough rust inside boats to know how it corrodes when left.for a decade or two. Go heavy below use your 4mm and a mighty rubbing strake on the topsides and superstructure. Chine hulls in thicker sheet seem the most sensible yacht steel designs I've seen robers 53 chine hulls consistently beat the radiused one in the club races and his replating will be soo much simpler when it comes. Older boats, especially home builts were prone to rust, because very few were ever shotblasted in backyards.
If you look at the photos elsewhere above on this page, there is one with three boats in it, a 38, 57 & 65ft - all raduis chined.
On the outside they had a few spots on deck repainted, where the paint had worn off over the years but that was always on welded on eyebolts, cleats etc, fittings that should have been stainless anyway. Properly blasted and painted, rust is no longer an issue, and certainly not something that you would want to increase plating for these days.
So I was thinking to fully weld them, mig , and 1" intervals, not continuing untill the previous weld completely cold, so a bit here, then forwd, aft etc ! In my heyday as a builder we use to weld stringers; 50mm weld - 200mm spacing on one side and the same weld on the other side of stringer, spaced in between the weld opposite. By the way, after shotblasting to an approx spec SA2.5 (white metal) we sprayed the inside with coal tar epoxy to a thickness of about 140 - 170 micron. I'd intended to spray [ compressed air ] useing gear I owned already , but it seems I'll be hasseling my friend for use of his airless unit now !!. I haven't worked with 2 pack epoxy's before and realise they cure chemically within a time frame, so is it the same as washing out -- say enamel paint ?, that is, rinse out completely with apropriate thiners then blow it through the gun untill it runs clear !?
The yards here often use Methyl Alcohol (Methylated spirits) as a cheap and effective way of cleaning up the unset mixed epoxy, the thinners are often too expensive for cleaning when you are blowing out spray paint equipment.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Radiance is a copy of Ticonderoga, of mahogany bolted to steel frames, built by Legendary Yachts and launched in 1996. Regrettable they have had to cest operations for an undetermined time period due to the world economy.
Location: New Zealand It would be very similar to the plywood stitch, tape, and glue method, right? Titirangi Previous Member   I built a fleet of CAT workboats using 10mm and 20mm wood veneered PP honeycomb panels and aluminium honeycomb manufactured in Taiwan for partition panelling and cabinet carcases in wheelhouse and berths to keep the weight down. The panels are very stiff, easy to fix to though I never considered using the material for exterior bulkheads or roofing panels. Location: St Augustine Fl, Thailand BIG BANG #1, Lion Whelp's impact test These two brothers bought an older 65' Alden schooner, and went about restoring and upgrading her. He points out that right after a hurricane in 2003 a whole load of telephone poles came off a container ship in the vicinity of Bermuda. The problem with a conventional plank-on-frame hull is that you have the planking on the outside of the ribs and the ceiling on the inside, with a void that's the thickness of the ribs between them," Phin says.
They bonded 3-inch-thick Nida-Core - the same thickness as the ribs - to the planking with WEST System epoxy. Location: New Zealand Short of working alloy or steel plate into compound curves with the likes of an English Wheel scantling are critical because plate essentially curves in mono-profile.
Location: New Zealand I dont see this discussion as claiming which material is best. Originally Posted by michaeljc I dont see this discussion as claiming which material is best.
BTW, as I recall, many Falklands War fatalities were from burning PVC smoke inhalations as PVC was used extensively in at least one of the British ships struck by the French-made missiles. Newbie help with choosing boat plans » Thread Tools Show Printable Version Email this Page Display Modes Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode Search this Thread Advanced Search Similar Threads Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post replacing a steel beam with a composite one?
Location: Hobart Welded lifeline stanchions on a steel hull - pipe or flat bar? Flat bar is a lot easier to drill & weld and no worries about trapped water in the tube. They'll be welded to a horizontal 20NB Sched 40 steel pipe that is the capping pipe on the bulwarks. Just finished welding the 20NB Sched 10 stanchions for the quarterdeck railing which is all pipe so no holes to let water in. Thing is, if there is either a pipe top rail or wire lifelines, I can't see how you can get tossed into the side of a stanchion. Now, adding some sort of diagonal brace to the stanchions either side of an opening for a boarding ladder etc, sure, but I'd do that regardless of pipe or FB.
The ships I used to sail on all had FB stanchions but they also had fully welded railings not wire, and the stanchion sections were something like 50x6 or bigger. Frosty Previous Member   I think 30 inches is the minimum, but what ever you choose I would make them high.
Originally Posted by pdwiley it's pretty much the last (hah) welding needed on the hull.
Frosty Previous Member   High stanchions may not look right but they will feel good and safe which is what they are for. Location: Alameda, CA, USA Looking around my boatyard, I see quite a lot of welded mild steel stanchions.
An old hand told me to drill a hole at the bottom and on a dry day after any water is out, shove in a rag soaked with diesel and light it, it'll take out the oxygen.
Unless, of course, you are talking about positioning flat bar so that they are widest athwartships. Originally Posted by CatBuilder Side loads are all stanchions ever receive (athwartships) and that's what they receive when you most need them - when you are about to go overboard.
The concern about getting tossed into them is a real one and it is the one which gives me the most pause. As for internal rust, the issue is the holes drilled through the pipes for the lifeline wires need either to be bushed with a welded in tube to keep water out or the pipes need a weep hole at the bottom to let water out. I guess I'll have to think about it until I run out of procrastination time then go with what seems like the best idea then. Originally Posted by pdwiley However big ships use FB so is the concern more theoretical than real? Otherwise I think I'll just use pipe, drill it for the lifelines, accept that water will get in somehow so make sure there's a weep hole low down, and fill to that level with epoxy of some sort.
PDW pdwiley View Public Profile View pdwiley's Gallery Find all posts by pdwiley Page 1 of 3 1 23 > « Why is my paint cracking? Location: British Columbia Fairness of the chine , depends on how fair you cut it out , just like the edges of the plates on any framed boat.
I could show you some pretty rough, wavy , fully framed boats designed by Colvin, Roberts etc.
If you have built one of my designs it wouldn't have taken you 7 years, when the shell takes only a week or two. The big advantage of origami is that a fair , good looking hull can be built quickly and easily,anywhere ,without cover or any fancy tools . Get cruising with minimal requirements , like a roughed in interior, bare plywood, then sail off and embellish it in quiet peacefull anchorages, bit by bit ,as the materials are scrounged, treating the finishing like a hobby and a pleasure, rather than something you have to do before you are allowed to get any pleasure out of your labour.
A veteran circumnavigator , he still wouldn't consider doing it any other way than origami. It seems quite obvious that the main reason for your troubles is your inability to think outside the box and your slavish clinging to group think.Group think is exactly what has forced the price of boats far beyond what many can afford and forced many others deeply into debt. Minimising the amount of welding , cutting and fitting required is an easy way to keep a steel boat fair.
Everything but the cabin structure was cut with oxy-accetelene, didnt buy plasma till after decks were on. I cant say for sure why this one looks different compared to others the hull is basicly the same as the 31' or 36' but I did recut the chines a bit, when I first pulled it together I had a slight upward and inward hook in the center of chines so I used a batton and my eye to streighten them out.
Single or multi chine doesnt make much diference to me, depends on the boat itself weather it looks good or not.
On the loft floor yes but for first time origami builder working from measurments you cant very well see it. I was thinking that maybe using the Scheel keel bottoms on the outside of the twin keels may help a bit going to windward.
The combination of hull rocker and width of the single keel, comming together ,is all the stiffness one needs in a single keel ,as long as it is long enough.


LyndonJ The transverse webs were my idea, worked out a little better and gave me somthing to attach the floor angles to. All in all the 26 is a fun boat to build, relativly simple and quick if you keep working at it. When welding sheet material together, say 12 gage and you need to weld two 4' x 8' sheets together end to end, whats the best method to minimize distortion ?
Pontoon houseboat plans can be found in a variety of designs, styles, and construction materials (fiberglass, Plywood, & steel).
Save thousands on these Southwestern House Plans and Southwestern Floor Plans designed to get special offers, our design blog and save your favorite plans. Search many Adobe and Southwestern style home plans at House Plans and More and find a floor plan design to build your dream home. Location: St Augustine Fl, Thailand Ceramic Paint-on Insulation Does it work?
If I would have known about this material I've have put some in the paint they used to paint my wife's townhouse in Thailand only a few weeks ago. Location: Florida Just removed some plain old Styrofoam from a friends boat.
Originally Posted by mydauphin Some of the piece are a lot heavier than others, they are full of water. Originally Posted by brian eiland I see where this subject you brough up, "ceramic bead insulation paint" appears to have fell on deaf ears?? PU and more particularly, polystyrene foams were and will still be problematic in years to come. I used ceramic bead insulation paint on my last steel boat built and if ever I would attempt to build another steel boat, this would be the insulation to use by default. There has been proper independent testing of these paints and they are not what they are marketed as. Below is the result of a detailed and truly independent test of two brands of ceramic sphere insulating paints ( they are all similar) they are applied to wall gypsum board for the test note that they don't significantly alter the gypsum boards insulating factor in fact one slightly decreases it ! The claims and dodgy testing methods published by these paint manufacturers are really nothing more than scams. Originally Posted by mydauphin Just removed some plain old Styrofoam from a friends boat.
I applied to bare blasted hull & deck first an epoxy primer covered by two thick coats (+- 190micron) coal tar epoxy.
The temperature difference inside the boat was impressively cooler compared to outside of boat.
As I mentioned before, I tested the stuff on two plates - one bare save for primer and one with CBP applied thickly on the inside and had a gas heating torch align a little distance from test pieces (approx 350mm) so both got the same heat. BTW, since NASA engineered this stuff (albeit different formulas obviously, but same principle) it must be worth the effort. Location: St Augustine Fl, Thailand Wynand, would you differentiate what you applied in the bilge areas verses what you applied to the topsides?
Do you know of a source of information on which brands of polystyrene board are appropriate and the associated products such as jointing tape, adhesives and gap filling compounds.
Originally Posted by Wynand N I hear you Mike, but we talk about steel and not gypsum boats.
Conductivity and emmisivity testing devices are common in labs around the world and that these paint manufacturers will not give any thermal conductivity figures when asked is the first hint something is awry.
Also the NASA paint which is apparently quite different and considerably more expensive to manufacture was developed for it's external reflective properties not it's internal insulation heat transfer. One of the paints tested in the graph increases the emmisivity of the board it was applied to ( it actually radiates heat better ) . But lets get objective: Insulation has physical properties that are easily measured, so ask the manufacturer for the thermal conductivity of the dry film and post the reply here! Polystyrene has been used as insulation on boats since it's inception and it's problem is that it was a terrible fire hazzard but it was light and has a high insulation value for it's thickness. Originally Posted by Nick.K Do you know of a source of information on which brands of polystyrene board are appropriate and the associated products such as jointing tape, adhesives and gap filling compounds.
I built my house using it as insulation 10 or so years ago and there have been scraps lying in the weather for years now. Location: USA There is some fuzzy information about air gaps between insulation and hull, about dew points, and about fibrous insulation like mineral wool. First, water vapor doesn't condense just at the dew point temperature, but also at any temperature that is colder than the dew point.
Second, it doesn't particularly matter whether the insulation is bonded directly to the hull or not. It is crucial that there be a well-sealed vapor barrier between the humid interior air and the cold hull. Closed-cell foams that are adhered directly to the hull, like a self-adhesive sheet foam or a closed-cell spray foam, act both as an insulator and as a vapor barrier.
A close-cell sheet foam that is not adhered to the hull (like homebuilder's Styrofoam) is also an effective vapor barrier -- except at its edges. If you use interior air to ventilate, with its typically higher humidity levels, you will likely create as much condensation as you remove. In my opinion it is ideal to wrap the whole living space with a blanket of insulation, including the bilges. I will wire brush the affected areas and build up a new coat with epoxy primer and 2-part PU paint. A vessel is nothing but a bunch of opinions and compromises held together by the faith of the builders and engineers that they did it correctly.
No problems really, pretty run of the mill localised coating failure requiring a bit of patching. I recommend epoxying and antifoulong the back of the anodes and then after the anode nuts are tightened epoxy the studs and nuts too. Originally Posted by MikeJohns No problems really, pretty run of the mill localised coating failure requiring a bit of patching. Originally Posted by MikeJohns Just check the interior to make sure it's nothing coincidental that started inside. Since it will be rather late in the season before I have her in the water I don't plan to have her out of the water before 2016.
I'd remove the anodes closest to the stem and those on the LE of the keel and those first abaft the keel. Bearing in mind the total mass of zinc should be calculated at least to be close to the required mass as I detailed in your link.
If you paint the studs with epoxy you can use anything really, SS is common although I spec steel studs on a steel boat. Purchase a box of steel serrated washers and Replace this washer at each anode inspection. Location: canada Steel hull prep - Sand blasting VS Wire wheel I'm reading about the application of coal tar epoxy, and the 1st most important rule is to prep the metal by sandblasting.
I might end up re-painting a boat that isn't right in my back yard, so it would be a lot more practical to not have to haul bags and bags of sand blasting media.
The boat in question doesn't really have a rust problem, this would be to mostly tear off the old paint and re-do with fresh coal tar epoxy. Originally Posted by parkland I'm reading about the application of coal tar epoxy, and the 1st most important rule is to prep the metal by sandblasting.
If the boat is already painted and the paint is reasonably ok, then no you don't need to take it back to white metal.
If it's plate covered with mill scale you're going to die of old age before you get even a fraction of the mill scale off with a wire wheel. I hate sand blasting so I paid a company to do all of my plate & bar *before* I started welding the boat together. Location: Mexico, Florida Water blasting is done on steel hulls n commercial yards.
Think of it like gun barrel blueing, a chemical rusting process resulting n a protective coatng. Location: spain Simply google metal preparation and you will find countless studies concerning metals.
Submarine Tom Previous Member   The guy was new to the industry, I had an influential job at the time, so he gave me a good price. Originally Posted by Yobarnacle Water blasting is done on steel hulls n commercial yards.
Originally Posted by Submarine Tom The guy was new to the industry, I had an influential job at the time, so he gave me a good price. Originally Posted by FMS I was advised to primer aluminum quickly after acid etching for strongest adhesion. The objective was just to take the gelcoat off below the waterline so I could apply an epoxy barrier coat.
BTW, why do you have to screw up every post on this board, or better put, hijack every discussion where steel boats are discussed with the same old crap, fabled righting moments, your 11 month cruising year etc etc.
As I point out in my book , there is a huge difference between resale value and resale price. My boats rarely change hands, and when they do come up for sale they sell quickly for many times whar t theri owner shav espent on them.
You say a round bilged boat is only 160 hours more than the usual multi chined boat in terms of welding?
We have been having a debate on another site about the difference between a yachtsman and a sailior. I get people who can't afford childish vanity , get their asses out to sea and off the treadmill, quickly and affordably. If I won the lottery tomorrow I wouldn't choose a style over substanc eboat like t your over my own.
Failure to think outside the box has grossly inflated the cost and time of building a steel boat , far beyond what many people can afford, while refusing to take advantage of the properties of steel. I remember building my first origami boat back in 1980 , in a shop where a qualified english shipwright was building a 30 ft wooden sloop. I refuse to build for style over substance or do anything that will undermine the function or seaworthiness of a boat. You say you can build a fairer , better looking boat by cutting a piece of steel into a bunch of smaller parts and welding them back together ?
By looking at your photos, Stu, my impression is that your buyers would expect new gear, whereas, Brent encourages the cheapest - albeit, quality - used equipment. As with these other considerations, I really have no idea of how long it takes to complete a build in your yard, nor whether you build the complete boat or just the shell. Gee, I have only been to Aus once, and it was only for a short time, but isn't damn near everywhere one sails considered "offshore"? Must have misunderstood the $20,000 to $40,000 boat budget thing, or, maybe that's the budget for a really, really small boat(with an eggbeater for an engine). One of the reasons I really like sailing is the camaraderie of sailors from all walks of life.
Location: British Columbia I don't charge owners for scrapyard or scrounging time.
One doesn't have to be broke, just repect the resourcefullness of those who cruise that way, and refuse to let lack of money stop them from living their dreams.
A lot of round bilge boats particulalrly motor boats and work boats end up with a pair of stub bilge keels welded on just to damp the roll. Are there any pics sighted along the chine of any BS boat that the chine and the bottom looks fair? There is not much to the internals and what little is there is deffinantly not dificult to fit to hull. Please, don't try to read between the lines, but as one whom has built his hull and is a veteran steelworker, your assessment of the construction method, ergonomics, challenges, etc., will go far in consideration for those whom consider building by this method. So make up such a frame for a 40 footer, and I can bend it by hand, by simply putting one end against the wall and pushing on it. By itself, it is as floppy as hell, but once it is tacked down, with a 7 inch camber, with no structural members under it, six guys can stand and jump on it, without it buckling or deforming in any visible way.
It will first twist the plating, second will wooble the deck, and third the mast will go thru the hull.
I thought you knew that, but evidently you don't, since your very mean attack on my resume prove it.
There, a dumb welder with insufficient and outlasted licenses can blame a well established boatbuilder of being a novice. Their excitement , and enthusiasm in seeing a hull take shape in a few hours from flat plate, is contagious. If you space your stringers, longitudinals a bit closer and add a few more frames, it is ok.
I uasually sprayed (airless) the inside with a coaltar epoxy with a minimum thickness of 180 microns after blasted to spec SA2.5.
I've seen some guys using chemicals to remove rust prior to painting,others just wire brushing!!
If your stringers are docked solidly against the plating and the welding sequence carried out as above, you will have no movement between plating and stringer to crack your expensive epoxy. Needless to say an airless spray unit was used to elliminate air trapped under paint, especially in corners. Much cheaper as epoxy thinners and does a sterling job, and you can re-use it again; just pour the used thinners in a container, let it stand overnight and the following day all the old paint and residue will lie in the bottom. If you look thru the website for the EuroShip vessels (the first referenced above) you will find quite a lot of construction photos for their canal vessels, and many references to their computer-cut plate kits for hull construction.
It's already well insulated (trapped air space), limited or non-condensing prone, stiff, with flat surfaces on the interior as well as exterior, to which any number of final finishes could be applied. I would suggest that a sub-frame of steels beams could be placed across the ship between gunnels, the PP panel(s) placed over these support frames in lieu of a sheet of steel. Significant additional laying up of composite at stress points would be required I imagine.


One panel was built to the same layup as the original hull, and another two panels were backed up with 3? thick NidaCore PP. This means although a steel hull can look compound curved there will one orientation where it is flat. During the Falklands War a British naval ship had its aluminium topsides catch fire after a missile strike. Not as resistant to bending with a side load but how often is there going to be a side load on a stanchion? This is concentrating my mind as I'd like to get the rest of the stanchions done, it's pretty much the last (hah) welding needed on the hull. The wires have to yield an awful long way first, or the top pipe needs to be severely bent.
I was a bit sceptical to begin with because of the the possibility of trapped water, but so far they seem to hold up fine.
I got them from the junk yard and no matter how nasty and rusty they were on the outside (Minnesota road salt mud wore out old car nasty) when I cut the universal joint ends off, the insides were factory fresh metal wise, with just a slight coat of oil. Being underwater, the only creatures who see it are the fish and I dont think they give a damn. Did clean and prep before welding together, took about 15 minutes per hull half and I would'nt do it without cleaning edges up first. I do like the round chines though, If I do another origami boat I think I will do the split pipe or rolled chines. With twin keels , one has to be careful not to design keels that an anchor rode won't slip off. If you take a look at the photo album in origamiboats site there are quite a few nice looking boats there.
He had it in the ceiling of the front room, it apparently got wet with either a leak or condensation. I didn't think they could hold so much water I had a comission once to make 30 large animal hutches for a government study centre, they had to be lined with polystrene board.
They had their purpose on ships during the Spanish Inquisition but with 21st century materials available such as ceramic bead insulation paints make them obsolete. Then we sprayed a thick coat of CBP as a first coat and after drying out followed by two thick coats with roller and brush.
After a short while the primer on the bare plate start to smoke and burn away and plate scalding hot and would not even attempt to touch it.
Without, it is too big an experiment to go off and buy insulation that looks good on paper but may prove to be absorbent, disintegrate with vibration or have the face foils peel off or break down. When I asked for hard data I found it concerning that not only were test results unavailable but the woolly experiments they were using as verification were clearly misleading. As far as I can see all these products are produced for the construction industry not the marine and as you point out there are many types of polystyrene and many surface treatments.
I picked up some the other day & tossed them on the burn pile (I live on a 3 acre block surrounded by other rural blocks so nobody cares what I do). That means that if the dew point temperature is reached, say, midway through the insulation, then any water vapor that happens to be between that critical midpoint of the insulation and the hull will become colder than the dew point temperature, and will condense. To keep moist interior air from diffusing around the edges of the foam the edges must be sealed to adjacent foam panels with (ideally) a high-quality sealing tape or a caulk (which is usually inferior because the seal eventually breaks). You only need to ventilate if there is moisture buildup, and there will only be moisture buildup if you have insufficient insulation and you don't have a proper vapor barrier. If you use exterior air to ventilate, depending on how dry that outside air is, you might be successful in drying out those portions of the hull above the waterline, where the hull might be relatively warm, but create even more condensation in the bilges where the hull is chilled by the cooler sea water (assuming that the sea temperature is substantially cooler than the air temperature). If you don't have bulk water leaks, internal or external, and you have adequate insulation and a tight vapor barrier, you should have dry bilges.
But I would really rather avoid having to do it again in a year or two.Has anybody some advice why this happened and how to avoid it in the future? The boat was build in 1999 and, as far as I know, has not been repainted (new antifouling, though). My 120 cfm setup is fine for small bits but even that is far too small to do the entire boat - at least it is if you're as impatient as I am. A light rust film is deliberately allowed to form before epoxy primer is applied, for greater adhesion.
Please, get on your origami boat and sail back to that origami site where I believe you are god and what you preaches are accepted as gospel. Many times I have let it go, only to have Lazyjack start it all up again with his goofy comments. They are well respected on the BC coast and worldwide by most experienced offshore cruisers.
A yachtsman is a slave to his ego and the obsession with impressing others, often of little experience, thru childish theatrics. I have frequently turned down foolish requests in the past , and have always been glad I did. It is my understanding, however, that those whom build to Brent's plans spend an average of 3 to 5 years to complete, though some are faster, some slower & some never finish, just pass it on. To him and many others who have experienced BC full time , like so many do the South Pacific, BC was all the paradise he needed. When you decided to build this boat, were you aware of Jack's alternative and prefered to have a single chine? As this thread began in the spirit of hull construction, why not discuss the nuances of why your hull is more pleasing to the eye than some similar origami boats? Resale value is the difference between what you can get for a boat and what she cost you in the first place.
The attached framing limits damage and provides safe stress paths which is not only a strength and stiffness issue but also a fatigue issue. Since your method of framing is floppier for being pre-stressed then the hull structure will buckle more easily.
It does develop soft spots once the longitudinal welds are done , which is why I force flat bar beams up under it, on 18 centres , along the direction of the curve, like longitudinals , not fore and aft, across the curve , like transverse frames. The deck is weakest point, the design need more attention since some renforcement can be detrimental localizing the stress inset of diffusing it.
Remember that the longitudinal stringer slots solidly into the frame and welded tight, meaning that the frame is not weakend. Two, shows detail of stringer and frames on inside - note the hull plating sitting clear of the frames. Provisions for insulation of the living spaces, provisions for limiting condensation on the inner steel surfaces, etc, need to provided for in the cabin sides, the cabin roofs, the main decks, the interior floors, etc..
And these 'finishes' could be glued, screwed directly to the PP panels without other battens, etc. Laying around their boatyard they had some old pieces of railroad track (pretty tough stuff). As I said I'd prefer the FB for ease of initial construction and elimination of possible hidden rust pockets. If your stanchions are welded shut air tight, I don't think there would be any problem with rust. I've seen people use copper pipe flared both ends to seal the holes - what does anyone want to bet that water can't get in? At worst I can always cut them off and weld on the other type, it's only a small area of paint on top of the bulwarks that would get burnt.
But falling onto them is, or should be, your first priority, as this is a very real and potentially daily hazard when caught in a storm.
Origami makes this much easier, but there are plenty of backyard builders who need a jump start to get the detailing done. Condensation does not bother this coating and should condensation formed inside the hull still it is able to drain to the bilge sump through its drain holes in stringers etc. The board had been stored outside in the builders yard, I bought it in advance and it stood for maybe two months inside the workshop, when we came to use it I was surprised at the amount of water it contained. At the same time the other plate subjected to the same heat discolored to blueish tint on flame side and the inside with the CBP coating still cool to the touch with the backside of hand!
The samples in these tests are placed between a hot pad and a cold pad and the heat conduction is measured.
That means that even if you have 10" of close-cell insulation between the interior and the hull, but humid interior air can get between the insulation and the cold hull, it will condense.
If the only insulation you are using is vapor-porus, like mineral wool or open cell foam (including DIY-cans of spray foam), water vapor will diffuse through the insulation until it hits the dew point where it will condense and saturate the now minimally-useful insulation. If the vapor barrier is between the insulation and the hull it will be next to useless if the hull is cold enough that the dew point temperature is on the interior-side of the barrier. There are some very minor rustspots, but in general the paint coat is in pristine condition. Leaving his comments unchallenged will cost the not so rich huge amounts of time and money. One very experienced veteran circumnavigator is on his third brentboat, another is on his second. Your average client, probably, would prefer a new engine, not a used diesel, pulled out of an old Volkswagen Rabbit. We have a local legend - now deceased - who built his boats from logs off the beach, with hand tools. I realize that Jack may prefer to design only larger boats, I believe he made this clear to me when we met.
If you look carefully, you can see in the right hand top corner the hull touching the frame. It's even possible that the surfaces of these PP panels could be simply painted, with or without a texture. If the loads are a concern for the PP deck, they would likely be a concern for the sheet steel deck. We created a monocoque [one piece] structure, a continuous I-beam that added a great deal of strength and impact resistance to the hull, as well as thermal and acoustical insulation.
While I am not an expert I understand carbon fibre has one particular disadvantage: it strains to a certain point then catastrophically shatters.
OTOH fabricating them from FB would be trivial and with the cross bar of the T inboard there would actually be more area to spread the impact rather than less, also an increase in stiffness fore & aft compared to just a piece of FB. A German aluminium boat that did well in the one ton cup in Auckland in the early 70's looked like a bucket that had got caught in a buffalo stampede. Had his boat been built as I designed it , he would have had plenty of headroom and the hatch would have been every bit as easy to climb thru as any sliding hatch. If you start with an ugly shape , you can throw all the money in the world at her and she'll still be ugly. The paint is too thin to test on its own so it's applied to a medium, in the test using something like Gypsum board is useful because you can quickly see whether it increases or decreases insulation or emmisivity.
Consider that glass wool is commonly used with the open wool side against the steel and the vapour barrier toward the inside.
If you have a closed-cell insulation, but have gaps around it where humid air can diffuse around it and come in contact with the cold hull, you will have condensation as well. I discovered several places that not only there were blisters in the old antifouling, but rust beneath, definitely not only from this year. Then , just before he started planking he watched me pull a 26 fot hull together in two days. You learn a lot , maintaining a boat over ten years, that you wouldn't in less than ten years. I don't have to charge clients to pay my rent when the work slows down, nor wear and tear on my tools. It's not how much material you put in a structure that makes it effective, it's where you put the material. Highest strake stays in one piece, lower strakes are cut in the middle and ends of the plates are connected. My current boat, with about three inches of outside curve , goes thru a head sea far more smoothly, with far less resistance.The buildup of buoyancy is far less sudden. If you are going to hit an immersed shipping container at sea you are better off with a steel or aluminium hull. The bulwark cap rail is plain steel, I'm using E309 wire to do the stainless to mild steel welds. I did notice that a lot of the racers in the last Sydney-Hobart race had padding over their lifeline wires to soften the impact so does that lead to people using pipe instead of wire? I didn't think they could hold so much water There are a myriad of grades of polystyrene. Using steel wouldn't be as good an indicator but you could, the results would just be around zero on the graph. The deck is weakest point, the design need more attention since some renforcement can be detrimental localizing the stress inset of difusing it.
This was a cost decision, yes, I would have liked 316 rub rails and bulwark cap pipe but couldn't afford it at the time. That is why they are considerd by most cruisers as some of the best looking boats out there, no bondo needed.
If I spend 20K on a boat of the same size , I'll have no problem getting double that amount in resale . By the same token, I've known well-heeled owners of very expensive boats, whom have much sailing knowledge and experience. So you can get a reduced puncture resistance if you want, but I'd still put the required framing in.
Then again, who cares whether the buyer is a sailor or a yachtsman, as long as they pay you to build them a boat. It is where you put the material ,and for puncture resistance, it's best put in plate thickness.



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