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Location: Tasmania,Australia Epoxy and Cyanoacrylate (SuperGlue) on Plywood Boats The flush joins on the Bow and Stern ends of strip planked boats don't lend themselves to epoxy joins.
Has anyone found that Superglue used as a temporary, non waterproof glue prior to epoxy covering, creates problems ? Location: WNY In your example photo, I think you could brush on straight epoxy inside the hull and get enough capillary action to hold the joints during tie removal.
Location: Iowa Superglue is really designed for non porous surfaces and I doubt you would get enough of a bond to keep things together. Location: Tasmania,Australia These are both good suggestions, and the reservations about the superglue not being strong enough when the ties are removed, is something to consider. I am getting an inclination to use a small V chisel ( like a linocutting tool ), and widening the tight joins as LP suggested. A lot of the build processes can be done with multi-step processes, but I am keen to streamline the manufacturing process, and reduce the 'bitsy' nature of the build if possible. Location: Eustis, FL Superglue will work, but will also prevent epoxy from sealing the grain, which is pretty important. This one has the tubing installed and a large capacity (3.4 oz), which is easy to load and clean.
They're very flexible, easy to trim to fit tight spaces and don't cost much, though not really disposable. Location: Tasmania,Australia Thanks Par - the blocking effect of the superglue of the epoxy could be significant, especially as the superglue will be destroyed by moisture. As it turns out, I invested in a syringe and tube last week to help in the bead application of the more obtuse hull joints - but the artists palette knife is a great idea I haven't thought of. Earlier this afternoon, spurred by LP's suggestion, I went out and bought a Dremel woodworking bit, with a sharp V point. I am hoping with a steady hand I can create a useful groove to create an epoxy bond at the ends. I am intending to bevel the plank edges (as per lewisboats diagram) where adjoining planks do not have enough angle. Location: Tasmania,Australia The Gelmagic looks like an interesting product, though very expensive. The next time I get the plywood CnC'd I might inquire about getting some of the edges done with a bevel cutter, but then I suppose it takes away the option to choose an inner and outer plywood side based on the wood grain. PS - sorry Steve, I failed to accurately thank you for your suggestion of the V groove method. The risk with the cnc bevelled cutter might be that it would open the joint up too much further down the canoe. I have been looking into router bits to open up the joint but that Dremel bit looks much better. Originally Posted by latestarter They do not appear to market Gelmagic in the UK so I am looking for alternative products, hopefully cheaper.
I too am not optimistic about a quality clear finish, but I will do my best and see how it comes out. To get a really quality clear finish, you have to use the really expensive epoxy, and wouldn't come at that.
I do enjoy a good wood finish, but the strain of keeping the 'look' after rock covered beaches, underwater sticks etc etc just leaves me unimpressed. Location: Eustis, FL Instead of going nuts with machining bevels and stuff, just pull out the trusty pocket rasp. Location: WNY I think you can get a decent bright finish most clear laminating epoxies.
When I make my next dinghy, I will use the use the wire ties again with the tie ends to the inside. I have used plastic ties on test builds, and they have the limitation of not being as rigid as wire. As I mentioned before, there are lots of 'tricky steps' that will overcome most problems, but they all add up to wasted time. Originally Posted by LP I think you can get a decent bright finish most clear laminating epoxies.
I am hoping that a bit of a widening with a sharp Dremel will allow an easily applied run of epoxy in one easy run with a syringe, without all the problems of applying glass tabs. When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Here are a few things you can look at to get a clue about the quality or user friendliness of your epoxy. We have discovered how great exterior latex paint is on boat surfaces above the waterline and on epoxy surfaces.
This has become such a critical topic that a dedicated web page has been assigned to Penetrating Epoxies. Your choice of direction could also be dictated by what you expect to achieve in your first build.
The advantages of polyester are economy both in terms of cost of material and speed of curing. Disclaimer: these are only theoretical suggestions based upon my knowledge of certain epoxy coatings. Inside the Hull - I would use 3 coats of our coal tar epoxy, with the first coat thinned 10%. Water tolerance before curing allowed the hull to be refloated immediately after the final FC 2100 application.


Completely free of volatile solvents – no smell or air pollution in the drydock during spraying. Some epoxy companies like to sell inexpensive 'pumps' to measure out units of epoxy base and cure. 1) sand the hull cracks smooth (as these crack age they seem to sometimes lift and curl along the crack edges). Originally Posted by PAR Instead of going nuts with machining bevels and stuff, just pull out the trusty pocket rasp. Hopefully I can get the results without getting out the 'hatchet', but I hear what you say about not having to be too fussy. I also got some 'positioning' holes drilled for the temporary frames, and these saved half a day of measuring and re-checking. I leaned the kayaks over on the rotisserie, and used a heat gun to thin out the epoxy as I applied it into the gaps, in an effort to get as much epoxy into the gap as possible. Over the next few days, I will check the strength of the plank joins, and decide if it will hold when the wires come out.
Location: Eustis, FL You could just stand them on their bow and pour in a loose mix. Location: Eustis, FL Taped seam builds, by their nature are quite imprecise. I've never had issue with bows before, in spite of a few designs having quite fine entries.
If I stood the hulls on end ( hard when your gantry is less than 16ft high), I run the risk of the hull being bent when the goo hardens.
As it was, I had to rotate the hulls upright after the 'pour', as the hulls flexed slightly on the angle as the building beam twisted slightly. The kit manufacturers gloss over the potential hazard of making a bent boat, and it requires constant vigilance to ensure the hull stays as accurate as it needs to be.
As I will be working alone, I will cut 3 external frames from some scrap ply and clamp the external frames in 3 workmate benches. I bought a hot glue gun recently it is a bit 'Mickey Mouse' but at ?5.90 including 50 sticks I can't really complain. Originally Posted by latestarter As I will be working alone, I will cut 3 external frames from some scrap ply and clamp the external frames in 3 workmate benches. You have to be very careful in the S&G type of build, as you can only rely on the frames position IF the designer has given you the measurements.
For some reason, maybe some misguided effort to protect their design, they provide very little info on the positioning of temporary frames, expecting you to calculate it based on a distance on installed planks. The benefit of using wires is that they are easier to tighten, and re-tighten, (from either side) than tapes.
Tape has the advantage of not needing to drill holes, but when the hull doesn't have a precise and solid frame underneath, wire is by far the most adjustable and rugged method of holding the 'planks' together.
Plastic ties have the problem of only being able to be tightened from one side, and have very little 'push' on the plank, only a lot of 'pull'. Location: Tasmania,Australia Holding planks in place while wiring I thought I had a photo of the method to hold planks in place, but I have done a simple diagram instead.
It shows the orange rope holding the centre of the two joined planks wider than the hull, with two green wires holding the stems together. The blue lines represent the three wire ties in the photo , as some planks are getting added to the bottom of the hull. This technique does away with the need to have some sort of female (outside) support for the planks you are wiring in, as the new set of planks will not fall over when the two ends are joined together. Originally Posted by latestarter I am treating this build as an experiment so will try a method, if it works, fine, if not I can start drilling holes with no harm done.
I found that making the frames was a real nuisance- trying to get accurate cuts on fairly heavy timber or particle board.
I had the best success tracing a really accurate outline on paper, and then hotgluing small strips of plywood around the edges of the frame shape on the paper. I then cut out a rougher, slightly smaller version of the frame, and screwed that down on the bits of plywood. Originally Posted by lewisboats Superglue is really designed for non porous surfaces and I doubt you would get enough of a bond to keep things together. My preference now for the process would be to apply an initial sealing coat of epoxy on the joins, making sure to not get a lot on the hull sides. By sealing the edges first, the thickened epoxy has got a good enough 'grab' surface, so that it has enough strength to hold the stressed plank joins solid when the wires are removed. Thickened epoxy by itself on the join seems to produce a few resin starved sections on the roughened plywood edges. I have figures of between $10K and $20K for total cost of super finish kyaks, and you wouldnt dare take them near rocks and sand. I am much happier with $3K boats that dont matter if they get dropped or run up onto rocks. Originally Posted by rwatson I am much happier with $3K boats that dont matter if they get dropped or run up onto rocks.
Now we've made the frames, laminated the stem, teaked the self-bailing cockpit sole, and set it all up on the building jig. The boat is decked, cabin sides and coamings are up, the cabin top beams are installed and are being faired.
We are located on the Snohomish River in the Pacific Northwest, about 20 miles north of Seattle.


We then set the piece before and the back piece on a good board and then laminated the top and the bottom in two steps. The same manipulation will be necessary to assemble the two pieces of marine plywood that make up the bottom. Panels front and rear trunks and the two flaps of ice are cut from the plate against Navy 9mm. I have to lay epoxy with a syringe in the wide joins further up the hull anyway, so being able to just keep on going through to the ends seems efficient. I've all but stopped using this type of assembly for several reasons, but if you precoat the area with a roller or brush, then join (tie) the panels, you can use a pastry bag or my favorite a disposable, medium size syringe, say 60 cc or more.
England I am planning to build a canoe, hope to collect the plywood next week and have been surfing for ideas to make the construction as simple as possible.
As well as the bow and stern, the canoe I am building is wider than normal and has the same problem at the mid section where the bottom plank and the adjacent ones are virtually butt joints.
England They do not appear to market Gelmagic in the UK so I am looking for alternative products, hopefully cheaper. There are quite a few times that a quick twist of the pliers will hold a plank in place, whereas a plastic or flexible fastener would either need replacing or some other complicated adjustment.
Its a matter of an hour or two to add lots of temporary tabs inside the hull, but then you lose a day as you wait for them to cure, another 2 hours sanding them back prior to the full fiberglass inner layer etc. MSDS information should also be available at the local marine store for all the products they carry.
However, the bevels may remove the option to choose an 'outside' from the panels, which could be important for a clear hull finish. The only real advantage is the jigless build method, though typically a few molds, some temporary are used. I've not found the multi tool to be a big help on most new construction, though in repairs it can be.
I found by making the top plank ( on the bottom) stick out by a mil, there was enough of a ledge to lay the epoxy bead.
England I am treating this build as an experiment so will try a method, if it works, fine, if not I can start drilling holes with no harm done. We have scarfed the 4X8 sheets of imported hardwood marine plywood into full-length sheets for the hull and are applying 3 coats of epoxy to their interior faces.
It will be very easy to cut the excess with a knife and then sand the area of the board when the resin is solidified.
This gets the goo in the tight space, in and around the ties and can even be worked into the touching panels themselves. With the inside of the corner (the most important one) completed, you can grind open the out side, as part of the round over process (which has to be done so fabric can lay down) and apply more goo into the voids, plus seal the newly exposed end grain.
On a few I've use a hot glue gun and straps of fabric to hold the seam closed, so I can do the inside. This will give some surface area for epoxy putty to bite into and you can smooth it level so it will be hidden under the tape with nothing showing. Thinking about it, I will not be needing a measurement certificate so if it looks right it will do me, probably if building for others I would be more concerned. This is the key for me, one fillet run for each seam on the inside, followed by tape, which greatly speeds things up. If you use relatively short straps, the outside seam taping will cover any damage received during their removal. Even with CNC cut panels, distortions and hull twists have to be constantly checked, which I don't find to be the case with a build over molds. The local blueprint shop makes full-size Mylar patterns for us, saving both time and knees. Mostly I prefer things that come off quickly, like clamps, tape, straps, Spanish windlasses, etc. The trick is to wire the bow and stern stems first, then tie the middle of the plans with a piece of string a bit wider than the boats hull (like a wide pair of handcuffs) .
Most laminating epoxies leave the outlines of the glass fibres showing, which may be 'decent' for some people, but not for some super fussy buyers who have no idea of what goes into building boats.
When you 'open' the planks, they form a controllable boat shape, that you can sit upright on the bench, and start wiring into the hull starting from the stern or bow. The long opening down the center of the cockpit will be divided into separate hatch openings and provided with 3 flush hatches. Its easier to apply an eyecatching design over the epoxy, and save all the hassle of having an entirely wood hull. In fact, the last time I did this, I cut both boat's panels at the same time, saving one set, until the first was off the jig.
Par will also tell you that 'external' ( I presume you mean female moulds ) create problems lining up the hull planks by eye.
The wooden legs visible just beyond David are part of the device we will use to roll the boat over. The plywood which surrounds the opening will become the bottom of large channels which drain through the transom scuppers.



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