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Was the highside model literally an additional plank,and has anyone got a reliable weight estimate for this model.
There are 20 high sides and then there are true 20 lowsides that were also built which was seven inches plus or minus less in beam.
This is one of the oldest Simmons 20 thats just been found, stored in an open barn with an engine on it.
Read somewhere about "frameless" construction,was that something Mr Carnell was responsible for? Dave actually did instructions for the 18 composite glass bottom grid in lieu of traditional framing.
I have also incorporated the grid glass system in the decking portion of a much larger one but cannot give you any hard numbers in the weight area though. But with that said getting all three deminisional measurements and angles correct on the bottom frames for the average builder is a bit of a challenge requiring a sober brain in the process.
I tried to get the 12 done but that was such a struggle that the only plans for that one is sitting on a scrap piece of luan in the corner of the shop with red dust on them.
As of late short of the hodge podge guys that still mess with the boats, the program is on its last legs with Dave laying in the nursing home. Build the well section as one unit first too from the beginning after determining your engine. The difference with the Simmons is that it acts like a dory hull, sit down and carry one and it will too carry a decent load pertaining to the rails in open water even though the deck space lacks when comparing the boat to another conventional runabout say in 20 foot. What this does especially in the free floating corners of the well is to almost remove any notion of working the corners which normally happens in butted or overlapping corners.
I also cut the well sides a bit higher than I need them to be so that I can also fasten the sides to the knees, of you look closely at the bottom parts of the transom knees.
What size is that boat in the above pictures,the floors look quite deep,and that has to be a lot lighter than all the bottom frames in the traditional build i would have thought. So you can also use some of the space for storage if you wish and do the same depending on size boat. I will now add he 20 built without the top planking for a great comparison for anyone that has been following the topic but a bit confused with the descriptions. Any idea how much wider on the bottom the 22 was,or was that just a stretched out 22,?I know the beam was slightly more. I have to confess,theres a 22HS for sale,and if i could get a cheap shipment to europe,it would be a tempting buy,it has all the right qualities to make a good North Sea boat. The only thing that I can tell you in regards to the 20 and the 22 bottoms is that there is five inches different in the two. From the threads and info i have come across,a few people seem to have put rather oversize engines, like 115hp!
Anyway,thanks for all the info,should he decide on the Simmons i shall be sure to let you know.
Have read stuff about a "hook" in the aft end,how important is this,and if people (some) overpower the boat, does this hook make any difference? To get WoodenBoat delivered to your door or computer, mobile device of choice, etc, click WB Subscriptions.

Try building a solid mahogany transom of one inch stock four feet high and six foot plus or minus beam, as he did in the original boats versus what many people do in the new builds these days. This is also one of the few true cedar planked hulls still alive with no rot, clinchnailed, ready for some cleanup.
The weight of around 700lbs is what i remember seeing,hence i thought 400lbs was rather light. Nelson Silva boats were short lived as he passed away early just after he had begun to get up to speed on reproducing them as semi kits and as updated hulls at that time, foam in deck and glass decks for the unusually large crown foward that does challenge the average builder.
The transoms on the 18 are slated at around 39 plus or minus inches while the four or five of the 20 true lowsides I have messed with are around 45 inches at the transom.The 20 highsides are around 52 inches at the transom. As far as side framing, its really nothing to now do away with the side framing, even though its hard for me to do that at all unless I would build components into the sides to the decking and add the deck over side caps which pipefiter did to his.
Frankly its probably a better system for novices to take care of in the new modern era of boat ownership. Reproducing them is an expense and we have never had one that we could truely do either or really the desire when they did come to light. Seems the history almost always dissapears before anyone can get an accurate log on the details. I fancy the 20 high side,i believe the bottom was wider than the scaled up 18,and so a better load carrier. The stringer system also goes all the way back and ties in with the transom framing, basically mortised along the side of the couple of layers of plywood. I used it as an example to show the alternative method that I described even though the boat is bigger. It actually tapers down foward to a tiny width while only raising the midrange section when you use the additional top plank on the 20 plans. I like the idea of a self bailing cockpit, but what do you do with all that under the floor,just epoxy coat everything and seal it up?Could always put inspection hatches i guess. I think the 20 highside will carry 6 people,but i dont think it will go together as fast as a Gardner 20 Garvey. The 18s could be as little as 200 lbs depending on the materials and how you finish the boat off.
The original highsides weighs easily seven hundred pounds if you build the boat with quality materials and build it as an original hull. While there are several versions of the interior arrangement, basic seat thwarts or middle walkthrough seating was geniune Simmons arrangment.
Of course thats places that bees and spiders hide too when the boat sits idle for months and even a year at a time too.
But with most of these boats now stored on trailers, I am not sure that its really worth the extra, extra, extra work to build with that method. So what are the plans that are avaliable from the museum, a standard 20 is a high side then? The hulls are straight foward even though most first time builders get a bit tricked up on the hook. With some simple splash guards inside the well sides too, water just does not enter from the transom.

But you do have the advantage of the wider bottom in those plans versus the normal 20 lowside that I provided earlier.
This guy did a nice job inside too, using all avaliable space, even adding a nice aft deck like Pipefitter and MAM did on his too. The drawn plans were taken from a foward well position with the net boards across the transom area and behind the engine mounted in the well.
But I updated years ago when I messed with these things and decided that there was an easier way for me personally.
I would certainly rather take the time and build a good example from top materials,but its not what this guy is talkin about right now,even if he knows quality is better in the long run,and will save him money. Bear in mind,no new 2 cycle engines sold outside of commercial use in Europe these days,so it has to be a four stroke.
First off its all the way back as far as you can get it for the engine deminision fore and aft. Have read about having to cut out more of the transom to allow long shaft to kick up all the way,but dont see any real probs as long as prop is dry.
Alex which heads up the on again off again web link does have the handle of some but does not have the avaliable time anymore to really do what Dave did tirelessly over the years.
But the chine plank is drawn and so your chines can be adjusted to it creating the bottom shape. But for sure they are not quick hulls in open water even though almost all of the designs these days of the established ones will carry some serious load by comparison to just a straight vee hull boat of the same length. Now with the lack of vee bottom its not a boat that you want to run 30 mpg downwind and sea though, because they will scare the person thats not use to power dories. But I am sure that if you go the extreme extra of all the glasswork involved, long term you will probably have less maintainance. We recommend that if you want a low-sided 20, you buy the Sea-Skiff 20 plans and build it without the top side plank. Every single Simmons these days or at least the ones that I personally know of have been changed in the well area because of the wide variety of engines and their sizes from the original two strokes, especially.
The its raised a bit so the hardover hardover swing of the steering works without the cowling hitting the sides.
One thing that people overlook is that almost all of the original 20 highsides had windshields on them which added increased weights foward not withstanding the added materials for the additional beam and foward deckover too.
Attempting to reengineer them over the net would further confuse you and I don't know the beam of the particular Garvey you are speaking about either. While there is a so called club,[I use the term casually] its not the same resourse at all. But if you think that the garvey will be easier to build, then I can only assume that you have never built a lapstrake hull. Other than the initial setup, a skilsaw and grinder will basically build the boat using modern glues.

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