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Location: Western Australia Conic development drawing I forgot to attach the drawing of how the conic development looks. No, I think that is the last thing you would do as the stress risers would likely cause the plywood to fail at the kerfs.
You seem to have the idea about the projection lines ( in boat design they are usually called ruling lines but mathmeticians have other names for them), in that they represent the straight lines along the axis of the cylider or cone. If the sheet material (this plan is actually a 50 foot semidisplacement power boat designed for alloy) won't bend to the designed curve, then the options are to use a thinner material or in metal, preroll the plate. In my experience ( my ply boat building and design is limited to about 20 feet), 10mm to 12mm ply is about all you would want to try and bend around most hulls.
1) how do you assure tangency between surfaces when you have to split, say, a hull bottom in two pannels? Location: Western Australia More than you wanted to know on conic delelopment with Autcad. I do not use Autocad to create surfaces at all - it is not really a surface modeller, although I do use some of its mesh surface applications in some engineering applications not connected with my nautical interests. The Autocad process that I use is just to test whether two curves (the centreline profile and the chine in this case) can be related conically or cylindrically. All the conic projection lines (which will be the ruling lines if the surface is developable, but at the early are just theoretical conic projection lines) are manually drawn form an arbitrary source which is forward of the full and to one side. With the hull lines set up as depicted in my drawing, I draw a series of vertical gridlines, which define sections through the hull. Then connect each source point to each intersection of the vertical gridlines and the chine line, in both plan and elevation. Where each projection line crosses the centreline profile on the plan drawing, a line is drawn up to the equivalent projection line on the elevation drawing.
If your new polyline sits close to your keel centreline on the elevation drawing, then the hull plate is developable. 1.Move the apexes of the conical lines ( either both forward or back, together) or sideways or vertically, independently.
Once you have got your head around this, think about the fact that that the plate under consideration does not have to have a single conical focus, it can have as many as you can cope with, as the governing cone can be of changing radius. As you get toward the stern, you can be less fussy, because you can take liberties with the plates as they approach the transom, and you can induce some curve of your own, which can make the panels stiffer.
You use the elevation drawing to draw the curvature of the sections by running horizontal lines forward from the intersection of each projection line with the gridline (between centreline and chine). You are seeing the result of the bow profile curvature being pushed through the panel until it is stress equalized along the length of the panel. In general, flat panel designs are far easier to stitch and glue than are those that have integral curves at one end or the other. Location: Indonesia At the school I went to in Maine, the Landing School, they built a planing boat that was cold molded top sides. Location: Atlanta, Georgia, USA DelftShip I know this thread is long dead. Just to try it out, I plugged in Dave Gerr's Nester Dingy into DelftShip, made sure they were developable and here are the views and panels flattened out, ready to trace. I wouldn't want to shortchange his mastery, but all the plans of his I have built had missing pieces the builder had to develop by filling in the spaces left by the pieces he did provide the design for, sorry about the laboured description. As far as I know his designs are tack and tape because Payson wanted boats that did not require epoxy, had many extra frames and nails as a result. Location: Gold Coast Australia Hi All - I know this item is old but I'd like to answer CET's question.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. In the chapter you will find and download very simple plans necessary to achieve this small fishing boat. Location: Eugene, OR The simple way to design tortured plywood hulls, at least for me, is to build a model. Location: Coastal Georgia What kind of car is that in the background center of the photo in post #6? Location: Port Orchard, Washington, USA I've got a photostat of Lindsay Lord's conic development booklet (at least that how I recall it right now) buried in a box somewhere at home.
A vessel is nothing but a bunch of opinions and compromises held together by the faith of the builders and engineers that they did it correctly. Originally Posted by jehardiman FWIW, sheet panels take a curve that minimizes the total stored flexural energy, so a lot of the shape depends on how you restrain the edges.
For some reason I cannot remember, I thought that the resulting minimum-energy curve is a 3th-degree polynomial passing through given control points. Originally Posted by SamSam What kind of car is that in the background center of the photo in post #6? Location: Gold Coast Australia For those that use Rhino and other surface modellers you can also use curvature matching techniques vs radii for the construction curves.
As others answered before, I think that Rhinoceros with the option of building developable surfaces is a great aid in designing boats to be built in plywood, whether stitch & glue or not. What I learnt a few years ago, and I wrote somewhere that I can not find at the moment, was to use the curvature feature in Rhino, to point all the areas with a radio of curvature bigger than a value given in Gudgeon's book that relates the thickness with the radii of curvature the plywood can be easily bent to.


Also, and trying to answer the original question, now I am just starting to peep at the wonderful world of Grasshoper for Rhino, and I think that it could offer the tools to simulate how plywood can bend, in an easier way that FEM can do it, that for some of us is still very far away and obscure.
Originally Posted by lohring The simple way to design tortured plywood hulls, at least for me, is to build a model. I'm trying to reproduce the patterns of Tornado almost primitive way and using software such as Corel Draw and Sketshup (see attachments). I did not know the GVT Cat, I was impressed with its smooth lines, but I'm not finding anything about it on the web.
Location: Michigan If the axis of the bend is not perpendicular to the center line of the boat, the cross sections will show a curve.
Originally Posted by valter.f I'm trying to reproduce the patterns of Tornado almost primitive way and using software such as Corel Draw and Sketshup (see attachments).
Originally Posted by johnhazel If the axis of the bend is not perpendicular to the center line of the boat, the cross sections will show a curve. When designing a stitch and glue hull for plywood composite construction and all developable panels, how can one predict how the plywood will bend? Modeling designs in Rhino is one thing but I have no idea whether the wood will conform to the developable shapes I am modeling. Location: auckland nz bending ply Here's a jpeg of the bow sections of the CBSkimmer - in 4mm meranti plywood. Bending ply requires some patience and slowly increasing clamp pressures, plus a few judicious saw cuts in a couple of high tensioned areas (but watch out the whole thing doesn't explode like a spiked balloon). Location: maine To calculate how far a panel will bend, rip a strip of it and bend. I've done coamings without steaming by laying them between two supports for a couple of weeks in the summer with weight bowing them down.
Location: Utah Can anyone offer any insight into the phenomenon I described in my last post? I would also be interested to know if there is a commonly used term for this phenomenon, which would allow me to search on it to find more info. If you take a cut across a simply curved surface in any direction other than perpendicular to the curvature plane, you will be cutting across some portion of the original curvature.
For prediction, I would imagine the amount is directly related to the angular difference between the section cut and the conic (if present) radial line or surface 0 isobend (don't know the term - 'contour' where bending = 0 ) factored by the amount of curvature or bending (perpendicular to the surface) that the panel has at that averaged (if twist) curvature location. The situation you are describing sounds to me like the conical development you will get anytime you induce twist into a rolled sheet. I use several surface development software packages to design hulls, and I normally export the design data into Autocad to finish the drawing. I normally draw a fair chine in elevation and plan and then adjust the keel profile to suit, while adjusting the origin points of the conic projection lines. If I haver had to alter the lines in Autocad, I then go back to Prosurf or Rhino and change the lines accordingly so I check the hydrostatics. What I have found is that performing a conic projection produces a possible conic solution to how the plates will sit, but it is not always the solution that the plates will find. There may be (certainly are in fact) much smarter people out there who know things that I don't about developing accurate cross sections. More tutorials about stitch and glue and fiberglass Click on the links above to download or see the plans. This method of building boats use pre-cut plywood panels that are Stitching them Together then Gluing a Stitch and Glue Night Heron; Free Stitch and Glue Kayak Plans. In plywood, it is quite practical to use thinner ply and then laminate more on top when the hull is assembled until the specified thickness is achieved. My design and contruction above 20 feet has been in steel and alloy, not because I think they are necessarily better for bigger boats (I don't) but for the pragmatic reason that in Australia ( especially Western Australia) if you build a plywood boat and a metal one to identical spec, the day you finish it the timber boat will be lucky to be worth 33% of the value of the alloy one. I am talking 6mm plywood here but all thicknesses will probably exhibit this phenom to some degree.
Because we are dealing with two views, there are two graphic representations of the same source (on the plan and the profile drawings), obviously both will lie in the same y,z plane at the same x value.
These are normally at the same location as the design stations in my hull, although I may add some others forward if there are not enough. I draw another source point on the plan drawing at the same x location as the other but on the other side of the plan centreline, so that the projection lines cross the centreline.
Where this connecting line meets the projection line on the elevation drawing is where the centreline profile must be located.
What this means is that the new cone focus has to share a ruling line with the previous cone focus to ensure that the cones are congruent. This makes plywood is very close to a ?perfect? plate material, in that it will not readily conform to any noticeable degree of compound curvature, unlike alloy, which can be coaxed into a surprising amount of compound. Notice that the same panel a bit further aft, does not exhibit the kind of curvature that you are illustrating in the photo. Perhaps the best thing to do, is to build models of the boats you wish to build full size and examine the behavior of the panels when building. A panel such as the one you show, is probably not going to be difficult unless you are traying to make the bow curves out of a thickness of plywood that is not going to take to the bend very well. 1) Yes there are programs that can predict the cupping, but these are FEA programs not CAD programs.


Two leaflets are available for download: the plan of the boat (side and cuts) and the cutting plane of all parts in the marine plywood.
After testing unsinkable, it only remains to be tested in rowing, sailing and with an electric motor. In reality it seems that the resulting curve of minimum energy is the one with linearily-varying curvature along the axis of symmetry of the curve, for a simple symmetrical case. In this way, Rhino would show, for example in red colour, complicated areas, and I could check the areas where I could have problems and take some action if the value of the curvature in there was very deviated from the ratio I knew we could bend the wood. Other plys will bend even further, like Hoop pine and of course the expensive aircraft plies in 1.5 and 3mm guages. Any sheet material with conform to what is called a developable surface, whic is essentially a section of either a cylinder or a cone (or combinations of cylinders and cones). The source in the profile view can be adjusted for z, the source in the plan view can be adjusted for y.
This is simpler than it may sound but it can make for a very messy drawing, so I have not shown it. If you then draw some buttock lines on the plan drawing, you can obtain y values where these buttocks intersect the projection lines. I use Rhino for my design work and when you have a curve as one of the component elements of the lofted, or swept surface, you will get a degree of this.
Sometimes the curved panel surface can be advantageous and other times it totally screws-up the look and the utility of the boat. FEA stands for finite element analysis and these are structural or stressing programs not CAD programs. The complex non-symmetric curves can imo be divided into smaller symmetrical sub-regions and the above result would be locally valid for each region. When you bend a sheet of ply, alloy or steel around the chines and centreline of most boat shapes, you will induce some twist into the sheet. If you skew the ruler until it is at 90 degrees the the long axis of the hull, then you see the parabolic shape that we are talking about. If you want perfectly flat panels then you must supply framing to stress the panels into shape. The polyline may be ?curve fitted? but not ?splined?, as in autocad, control points for splined lines do not lie on the polyline. The exact shape of the curve, as you pointed out, will depend on the restraints at its ends, but also along the curve. It's interesting that the result equates directly to a parametric cubic spline using the arc length as the parameter. Most of the twist is where the chines lead up toward the bow, which is why you notice the effect most there.
The process of performing a conic development looks scary to a novice but gets earsier with practise. It is meant to be a simple and quick stitch and glue building job of Click here to download the latest version of the free Ella skiff plans.
NURBS surfaces are effectively surfaces of best fit to the construction lines and do not take any of the material properties into account when you build them. If you curvature match the curves then there is no tangencial intersection but the curvature of the curves is the same at both sides of the intersection so the intersection is much smoother then if a tangent is used. A very close approximation for most purposes is a parametric cubic spline using chord length between supports as the parameter. Autocad makes it much simpler, as the origin points of the cones can be dragged around to find the best origin points. You therefore don't get a message that it can't be unfolded, you get indications where it goes wrong and what to do about it interactively. If you look at the frame sections superimposed on each other, as they are in the sections plan, then you will notice that the aft sections are more likely to be parallel and the front ones tend to fan apart. 3) so to build surfaces that behave like plywood or metal requires some rules to be applied to the construction lines so the resulting surface can be developed afterwards. It is simply an integrated part of the hull general fairing instead of something you do as a last step. If the surface is to be bent in two planes slightly a hyperbolic would work, but it does have the cup you are describing. Metals can be stretched so can be forced into shapes that timber can't be as timber does not stretch.
But to bend it significantly you need to do a compression bend not a tension bend as when hot the timber is less strong. If you used an FEA program you can bend the plywood into the required shape just like you would in the real world and see if its possible. Plywood will do a little more than this but once you have some experince you will be able to understand the limits.



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