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24.06.2015
My __ year old father and his woman friend would like to get married but not go through the government with a marriage lisence. The Church teaches that marriage is not just an agreement between two people, but is a public covenant. In some places, the State has moved to distance itself from the Church and has ceased that cooperation. For now, these United States and the Catholic Church are still cooperating in the sphere of marriage, though as state after state changes the definition of marriage to include agreements that are NOT marriage, the time may come soon when that cooperation will have to cease. The Church should be very careful in permitting secret marriages, because doing so puts the priest or deacon who officiates at such a wedding in danger of civil prosecution. In most of Europe it is the case that marriage is completely seperated between the State and the Religious body someone belongs to. I do not think even a sinful immigration should bar two loving Catholics willing to promise all the marriage promises from marriage. With (relatively easy) no-fault divorce, divorce and remarriage, unnatural marriage, and all sorts of other oddities having crept in, I think it is about time for the Church to at least partially part ways with the state on marriage in these USA. In regard to your comment, Second, they act as agents of the State officiating at a wedding of two persons.
In regards to civil marriage, I would also encourage everybody to review Leo XIII’s Arcanum. Sometimes it is done in the sacristy before the ceremony, which is good in that it hides the paperwork from public view. In Tennessee, we sometimes struggle with marriages between two foreign citizens without visas.
And I completely disagree with the notion of the Church separating herself from civil marriage. Though it may be said that the Church acts as an agent of the state in US marriages, nonetheless, it is not as a necessary agent. If any person knowingly perform the ceremony of marriage without lawful license, or officiate in celebrating the rites of marriage without being authorized by law to do so, he shall be confined in jail not exceeding one year, and fined not exceeding $500.
I guess I’ve always wondered just what the point of a secret marriage is, considering that the woman very well could conceive as soon as the marriage is consummated (wedding night babies are not impossible). I had actually thought that of burning our New York State marriage license as an act of civil disobedience. As much as I favor lower taxes, as a priest I absolutely cannot cooperate with anything like this. I have a lot of sympathy for two elderly people who would like to marry, but if they do, they will not be able to afford to live.
I’m actually beginning to think that our Social Security system is a case of the United States government forcing everyone to tear down their barns and build bigger ones so we can relax and take our ease, for we have treasure for years to come.
If they marry openly and have the usual wedding party with the usual invites to family and friends, then it is a public event.
By the logic of public marriages = government marriages, then if the government were to cease to exist, then no one could get married. There are and will be many attempts to take advantage of the Church’s unwitting courtship with the State.
Someday the State marriage registration forms will have a nice section where the couple signs stating that they will agree to respect and honor the State Definition of Marriage that recognizes homosexuality and polygamy without protest and shall agree to raise their children to be tolerant under this rule, otherwise risk the penalty of having all their rights and tax exemptions revoked, maybe even their children if Germany is an example.
If Catholics want the legal benefits, then we can just go arrange those ourselves with a lawyer, and push government run institutions to agree with these legalities without requiring a civil marriage.
So if you’re not in the business of converting your country to a Catholic Nation, then for the sake of equal protection from government coercion get them out of the marriage business. Don’t give secular government more power to define and register things they have no business being in. But even in the church, I can’t remember the last time that shacking up was denounced from the ambo. Cheezewiz, I believe this is place to forbid a person not licensed to perform marriages from performing them, not forbidding a person duly licensed to perform a wedding of a couple without a marriage license. The long established divorce-and-remarriage racket already makes the marriages of every state in the Union unnatural, and no-fault divorce is so firmly entrenched even the most ardent culture warriors in the Church have said not a word about it in my lifetime. The battle for civil marriage conforming to natural is lost, and was lost before I was born, for the present time.
The state has not only failed in its duty to protect the institution of marriage, it has become positively hostile to the institution. Much like giving communion to those ill-disposed to receive, allowing marriage to remain in the hands of our present government is not a blessing for either us or them, it is rather something akin to sacrilege, a giving of what is holy to swine. An undocumented immigrant is a resident alien who happens to leave their green card in their residence and not have it on their person as required by law. Years ago I remember an older couple who got a civil divorce just so they could afford to stay in their home. In the meantime two Catholic retirees whose finances will be harmed if they marry will pay a price that a couple who exchanges vows on the beach or simply cohabits will not pay. That said, it seems clear that the government definition of marriage is no longer congruent with the Catholic Sacrament, nor has been for some time. My understanding is that two elderly people of the opposite sex on Social Security who wish to marry may suffer a loss of benefits, if they marry each other, such that they cannot survive on what is allowed.


We should not deprive ourselves of what has been difficult to win – especially in England.
Yes, we should accommodate those who would rather marry in secret than suffer loss of benefits.
It is interesting that older folks console the young not to fight battles they believe to be lost. Next, all of this leads me to wonder: would the couple not be considered married, in a real sense, if they swore marriage vows to each other before witnesses, even without the solemnization of a sacramental marriage in the Church? I knew this going into it, but I seriously had to get myself mentally prepared for a different lifestyle. And since you know that we’ve been married for 20 years this month, then you know that I ultimately decided to bite the bullet and commit to only wear the white dress once. I had to grieve a little knowing that I would not get to enjoy all the festivities of my ancestors and their multiple diamond rings and cake cutting. But I think the joy that comes from spending your life with one person outweighs all that extra wedding cake. He encourages me to be the best at everything I want to be- a mom, a professional, and a friend. He ALWAYS buys me cards for every occasion and if he doesn’t like what they say he crosses out the words and writes his own. He acts like he doesn’t think I am beautiful because he is trying to balance  me- but I KNOW what he really thinks. Hi, my name is Anna, and I'm here to share my stories, make you laugh and help you feel better about your crazy, messy, fabulous life.
I love that my husband is truly a standup and honest guy, sometimes too honest for his own good, but still he is honest.
What I took from this post is that the REAL secret to a happy marriage is for one partner to be blind and the other, deaf! FOLLOW ME Arpita Khan Sharma Opens Up On Salman Khan's Secret Marriage With Lulia Vantur! Evan Rachel Wood and Jamie Bell have sent the media buzzing over the possibility of them having secretly tied the knot.
Enjoying a romantic stroll in Venice, California on Sunday, March 25, 24-year-old Wood rocked a silver ring with a diamond, while 26-year-old Bell put on a simple gold band. Shortly after photos of them sporting the rings came out, Wood took to her Twitter account to post a cryptic message. Wood and Bell first met in 2005 when they starred opposite each other in a music video for Green Day's song "Wake Me Up When September Ends". The Church has long cooperated with civil governments with regards to marriage, since marriage between one man and one woman is something that is to be valued both by the Church and the State. In France and Mexico, for example, the State does not recognize marriages celebrated in the Church as having any civil effect. But… for now … the state authorizes priests and deacons to act in two capacities at a wedding. First, one or both parties are undocumented immigrants and, next, one or both parties are senior citizens and concerned that marriage would affect a pension payment.
A priest or deacon who officiated at such a wedding without permission of the local ordinary would acting illicitly, and be subject to civil and ecclesiastical penalties.
This may also apply to other countries where Catholic marriage is recognised by the government.
The arrival of a child on the scene kinda undoes the secrecy of the secret marriage, does it not?
I can’t recall if they actually admitted it was to enhance either their social security benefit, or tax deductions, or if something they said pointed in that direction.
Andrew Greeley (SO SUE ME), a priest gets permission from his bishop to marry a young (but adult) couple in secret because the girl’s father is controlling and abusive and otherwise they would have eloped. In Canada, the Catholic Schools receive government funding so that they can teach and hire non-Catholics.
Get them out NOW, or be content to wait until they come back years later to bite us in the ass.
That way there is no coercion to accept any definition of marriage, nor any coercion from going out there and converting people to proper views of marriage rooted on a vocation centered on God and Creation and Love rather than sexual gratification, legal tax benefits and state recognition.
Besides the maturity angle, the wider cultural views on marriage have so contaminated even the minds of Catholics that it is often quite easy to show a lack of intention for true permanence in tribunal cases.
The same-sex marriage battle is merely a rear-guard action of the last faithful remnant of a fled-for-the-hills army.
Do not look to politics and politicians to save marriage, they will not, rather they shall save their political fortunes. If he forbids them, he is breaking natural law and enticing people to non-marital relationships. So I suppose if you really wanted to you could get married in the Church and then get a divorce since in the Church’s view you are still married.
Is it fair to Catholics who are walking the path to deprive them of the legal benefits associated with civil marriage? We should continue to bear witness to the law arguing that marriage is one man and one woman by not shrinking away from the present challenge.


And hasn’t it been true that, for much of the Church’s history, couples were considered married even before they came (or even if they never came) to have the marriage solemnized in Church?
For example, “not only the marriage between Catholics, but also that contracted by members of the different sects which have retained baptism and validly baptize, is undoubtedly a sacrament.
At least with his bad eyes, he has no idea that the shower has been pretty filmy for 80% of our marriage. While my husband and I are both on our second marriages (apparently we both attracted psychos the first time around), we both come from a line of long married people. He concerns himself with making sure everyone ELSE is having a good time and finds joy in the smiles of others. The "Mildred Pierce" actress and the "Man on a Ledge" actor were photographed wearing what seems to be wedding band on their ring fingers when they stepped out together over the weekend.
For the outing, both opted to go with dark outfits as Wood donned a black blazer over a striped T-shirt, boyfriend jeans, and ankle boots, and Bell wore black T-shirt, brown trousers and matching ankle boots.
The two split in 2006 after a year of dating, but rekindled their romance in the summer of 2011. Back in November, Wood set the record straight by tweeting, "Sorry to disappoint, but I have been wearing that diamond on my left hand since I was 14.
It would also cast aspersion on the character of the other priests who are obeying both the civil and ecclesiastical law. The only need for government to provide tax benefits would then be for the sake of children, so government should only recognize those who are the legal guardians of children.
Now I am not at all a defeatist, I fully intend for the Church to win this battle, but we must regroup, and stop fighting on terrain of the Enemy’s choosing. They do the marriage and sign the documents but don’t deliver them to the government so long as they remain together, or until the kids reach 18 where such benefits cease. As much as I would revel in the Church’s taking such an aggressive stand towards the state and the culture, I think we are far from the point where it would be prudent.
I would surmise that if you value benefits more than marriage, that you shouldn’t marry.
You see, I tend to forget things so each time he tells a college fraternity tale or a high school football statistic, it’s extra fun. I liked the one I had, and I’m keeping it for Baby Girl, but I never intend on needing it again. With your hearing issue and the fact that you often go “commando” how exactly are you sure that your farts are louder????
On the bright side, we have a LOT of mistaken phrases in our conversations that are rather funny.
The faithful in these places would need to exchange matrimonial consent twice – once for civil effect, and once in the Church truly to marry each other. The Catholic Schools, now filled with many non-Catholics, many who voted for this great progressive move, don’t have a choice.
We must instead launch a full fledged counter-attack, and do so where our opponents are weakest.
He makes me laugh, too, and absolutely does not allow me to second-guess myself, which I had been doing my whole life. He make look like a big, gruff guy, but he’s a softie at heart (which is how we ended up buying 3 rabbits for $150 at an animal auction).
To marry without a civil license merely to circumvent the pension contract is pretty dodgy. So, normally people marry first in the Standesamt and then afterwards go to Church for the real marriage. If they are able to live in one of the two houses and combine their SS pensions, they might be able to make it; if not, each will probably have to retreat to a sad apartment above a store without a yard, or in some places, to a single rented room.
They could give up government funding… but Mammon is much nicer for their bottom line. BUT, in the case of your questioner, it is perfectly normal here for retired people, who are financially secure not to care what the State thinks and if they want to remarry after the death of a spouse, marry just in Church. Of course there is indeed the risk of those looking to have children merely for tax purposes but care not for them.
Step two is to take marriage away from the state, for the state sins gravely against God by sanctifying what God condmens, and that is a sin which those of us that permit it to continue share in.
Afterall the state recognition is only important for questions of taxes and status before the law, which for older people are no longer of any particular importance. But that’s mainly of concern in countries where poverty is incredibly vast and by and large nobody cares if children wind up dead from neglect and starvation. I could just go in and get the license and carry on my business, but that’s not what the sacrament is all about. What we can not permit is the state, or the wider culture and society, losing all sense of true marriage.



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