Most dealer markup is on the order of 20% plus what ever the comissioning and electrics , and their insallation , will not be recovered at sell time.
Of course if you are a very rich man, you can prefer other criteria, but then it will not be about budget cruising and it doesn?t regard this thread. About boats with less interior space, you can cruise in a 12 m open power boat, the ones long and narrow with a small interior cabin, doing 45knots and having a lot of fun.
So, if you think you have found a similar priced boat that compares with the Oceanis in the criteria that defines budget cruising, let us see that boat. Originally Posted by Vega Seaworthiness, lots of interior space, economic operating costs and low initial price are the main items for a budget cruiser.
Of course if you are a very rich man, you can prefer other criteria, but then it will not be about budget cruising and it doesn’t regard this thread. Also on Sept 1, 2003, you also heard the story of a 11 m sailboat sailed by 3 couples in force 7-8 with 3 meter waves, between Port Cros and Calvi. Krogen has built a krogen 42, similar to nordhavn 42, but which has been produced much more longer than the nordhavn. That’s how I have calculated the Oceanis and the Nordhavn depreciation, not referring to a 2006 model, but to used 2005 models. I have made some calculations and the Krogen’s 42 depreciation is low and that signifies that is roughly the same as for the Nordhavns 40. So, a 10 year old boat would have a depreciation of about 34%, and that means that depreciation, even being low, will be almost the same value of the price of a new Oceanis 393. Location: Portugal Fcfc one of the good things of this forum is that there are a lot of different people in each thread. I have taken into account what you have posted about different types of engines and different maintenance costs in all the calculations I have made regarding the comparisons between sail boats and motorboats, and I am enjoying this discussion and learning a lot in the process, but I am not opposing anybody, only trying to analyze budget cruising costs.
That only means that you need to learn and there are a lot of good schools that can teach interested people, not to speak of friends, clubs etc.
Of course, if you prefer motorboats it is natural that you opt for one, regardless all other factors.
Nowadays it is a lot easier to sail solo a 40ft sailboat than it was sailing solo a 30ft 20 years ago. About risks, as I have said, if you know what you are doing, a sailboat the same size and weight of a motorboat, given the same circumstances, is a safer boat. You being a skilled sailor it doesn’t make sense to say that a sailboat is, for your family, more dangerous to use for cruising than a motorboat.
Originally Posted by Vega I want to do the calculations for the time in my life when I will be free for going with the wind, I mean doing extensive cruising without going back, at least the same way. The 14 408 euros difference in costs are not really significant, considering the price of a new Oceanis 393 (around 190 000 euros).
Regarding costs, if you do a voyage like this once in a lifetime, it will not really matter if you do that in a 10 year old Nordhavn or in a new Oceanis.
Of course, if you are one of those lucky guys who has retired and are cruising extensively, buy a sailboat. If you cruise like that for 10 years, the difference will be of 72 040 euros (US$ 91 760) and that is almost half of the boat value?.But the sailors that can do and actually do that are very few, so if you are not or will not be one of those lucky ones, regarding costs, it will not really matter if you have a new Oceanis or a 10 year old ocean trawler.
Of course, this type of motorboat is a very, very small percentage of the total number of ?cruising? motorboats over 40ft and these numbers are only applicable to this particular type.
You repeatedly make the point that this thread is about the economy of sail vs motor, rather than any other factor. I would add that the dollar and cents (or euros and cents) discussion here is equally relevant at the 45-55 feet range as it is as the 35-45 range.
I still believe that never will a decision of sail vs motor will be made on economy alone, or even first.

I also believe that long ocean passages are better risked on small boats when you are young and fit than when you are retired and..
I would like you to post a single 32ft motorboat interior that has the slightest comparison in what regards comfort. I would add that the ?) discussion here is equally relevant at the 45-55 feet range as it is as the 35-45 range. I have never said this thread ?is about the economy of sail vs motor, rather than any other factor?. I have said, and quoting ?this Thread? is about comparing costs of Budget cruising between Motorboats and sailboats?.
And the conclusion I have reached is that if you are not one of those sailors that are retired and cruise a lot, regarding total costs?it will not really matter if you have a new Oceanis or a 10 year old ocean trawler?? but ?Of course, this type of motorboat (with a small engine) is a very, very small percentage of the total number of ?cruising? motorboats over 40ft and these numbers are only applicable to this particular type?.
For the other 97% of motor cruising boats around, if they really cruise, regarding fuel costs, it will be another story. Even regarding sailingboats I had the opportunity to take a good look at a significant sample of the retired cruising community.
For 2 Years I had my boat in the best and most luxurious Portuguese marina, Lagos, on the South coast.
They have big sailboats with engines as big as the ones that you have on those trawlers and they rarely sail. They have chosen to buy comfortable and safe sailboats that could be used as economical motorboats.
Unlike economical motorboats (regarding fuel consumption) there are plenty of these sailboats around and they will cost new a little less than a 40 Nordhavn, or, with 10 years, the price of a new Oceanis. So, in the end, if you want comfort, it will always be expensive and a question of style and personal preference, being the initial cost of the boat the most significant. I didn?t go that way, because that can hardly be called budget cruising, and in the end it is more about having a floating apartment somewhere than really cruising. But I'll stick to my point about comfort on a 32 ft trawler compared to a 44 ft sailing cruiser (I used to own a Beneteau 435).
However sailboats are usually far easier to push at low cruise speeds as the hulls are optimised for such work.
The higher speed optimization kills tha low speed with economy , found on most cruising sailboats.And the BIG engine does poorly at 10% loading.
But I'll stick to my point about comfort on a 32 ft trawler compared to a 44 ft sailing cruiser (I used to own a Benita 435). I understand what you say about the outside space, but it is only a kind of different space and in a 44ft sailing boat there is a lot of deck area. Regarding high quality 32ft sailboats, take a look at this boat and tell me what you think. Location: france,europe A 1965 GB32 may have the space of a 44ft 1965 sailboat.
They once stated they tried to sell a 12 kts cruise boat where the market demands a 18 kts cruise speed. But that it is not the type of boat that it is fit to economical cruising neither to live in, for some extended periods.
If *anything* happens to my in cruise, wife and daughter would be unable to do anything on a 40 ft sailboat. The price of a new 44 (2005 price) is between $645 000 and $780 000, depending on options and extras. Of course it is a bigger boat, If it was a comparable boat (a 36-38ft) I guess it would cost the same as a new Oceanis.
I mean people that are interested in dinghies, people that is interested in ships, people that are interested in motorboats and in sailboats.

But you are saying that you opt because it is safer, and you being an experienced sailor that doesn’t make sense to me. My kids have learned very soon how to handle the boat and the responsibility of being in charge and that has made them more confident and self-assured. If you are a good skipper you will not endanger your family in a motorboat neither in a sailboat. I mean, one cruise I want to make is going from Portugal to Madeira, Canary Islands, Caribbean, Central America, North America, Azores and Portugal. There are quite a few professions or business people who love the sea and can afford up to a 50 footer (sail or motor, new or used) but cannot afford 1000 euros a day on fuel, nor the use of a paid help (and therefore are able to handle their boat by themselves or with their life companion), and they will make exactly the same calculations as have been made here. It is a question of lifestyle, and has everything to do with either comfort ( a 32 ft motor boat is comparable to a 44 ft sailing boat in that respect, at least in harbour) or seamanship. I do not think this thread should encourage newcomers to believe thay can 'drive' accross the pond on a 40 ft motorboat, albeit from Nordhavn; and if sailors can and should do it on a good 39 ft 'rag' boat, they'd better be very experienced and able to fix anything, including themselves. The whole tunny fishing fleet from your rias had rushed for shelter in Dingle, on their beautiful rod and line boats that looked like they could face anything - but wisely wouldn't.
The Marina is full, not of Portuguese boats, but of an international community of retired cruisers.
And I will bet that, when sailing, they will motor most of the time and will only use their highly mechanized sails when there is almost no wind. The galley is really small and the only cabin also, and the saloon really does not compare (some of the 44ft sailboats have even two living spaces, one up, other down. Some time ago, after a club race, I was invited to have a drink in the boat that finished ahead of me. Now I have a family and I think it is just taking stupid risks for a very selfish pleasure.
That price has come up because the 39ft price has raised from $485 000 to $552 700 (2005-2006).
I feel that you have a position of antagonism, regarding what I am posting, assuming I am defending sailboats, but I don’t want to defend anything, nor be against anybody. My younger soon is able to do that since 10 years of age and even my wife, that hates to take care of the boat, has no problem in doing that.
I guess they are not very experienced sailors, but regarding safety, that is not important, because they don?t use their boat as a sailboat. The galley and the cabin are a lot bigger, not to speak of the small workshop (see under panorama). Today, similar vintage vessels are selling (not asking, but actually selling) for well over $400,000. The depreciation of a car or of a boat is calculated by the amount of money that you have to put on top of your used car or boat to buy a new identical model from the same builder.
The owner was quite proud of his new boat and of the big interior, but all I could think of was that I would feel a lot more comfortable in a Malo or Najad 40 and also how the hell could they move in the boat at sea, with the boat heeled (the space was huge and I didn’t see any grab points). A sailboat, versus the vast majority of motorboats of the same size and weight, has such a bigger margin of safety that the limiting factor is the crew. OK, some 44 ft sailboats will squeeze in a third cabin, but it will be more like two berths in a cupboard.

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