Location: Central Connecticut Chine angle on edge of hull I am wondering on a hard chine hull, what characteristics does the angle outwards of the chine edge have on a V speedboat? Location: Australia You mean the angle to the vertical formed by the topsides ?
Location: Central Connecticut Awesome those are the exact responses I needed.
Location: Australia Naturally there is more to it than how much air-borne water is generated, and whether it impacts the boat, the topsides forward interact with the water significantly when running down-sea, and fast boats generally have significant rake in the bow area, both above and below the chines, to better manage such conditions. Location: Central Connecticut Can you elaborate on significant rake in the bow area?
Location: Australia I assume your model boat is designed never to be used as a template for a full-size boat, in which case the considerations are entirely different, as a RC racer you have just to worry about maximising speed, and the thing staying right-way-up, even if you flip it, it is not serious business. Location: Los Angeles Flare has a lot to do with seaworthiness such as in a dory hull. Location: Lakeland Fl USA Aaron, is the RC boat to be a speed boat, a sailboat, a displacement type cruiser?
The boats I have just have a slight flare and the bow is not extreme, it has the same flare angle from rear to front.
Location: Lakeland Fl USA I have watched a few regattas where boats of that description compete.
There seem to be flat water designs and rough water designs all of which are pretty straight forward layouts aimed at the particular conditions. A slick design feature should be incorporated into the topsides, because at the speeds they go, aero drag needs to be dealt with. I agree as far as deadrise, I dont want to design a deep v so if its shallow what types of features would improve rough water handling? If you look at some of the APBA hydros or racing runabouts you can see chines with a configuration called non trips. I suspect that you will need to do a bunch of experimental builds in order to arrive at the ideal for the water conditions that you normally expect. When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Location: Barneget Bay Opinions on round bilge vs hard chine We're in the process of designing a 24' version of a traditional New England Bassboat (similar to a Fortier, Wasque, Tripp, Duffy) and are torn between the traditional round bilge hull vs a more modern planing hull.
We will keep the traditional profile of a downeast lobster boat and are leaning towards keeping the bottom traditional (round bilge).
Location: Minneapolis,MN, USA Here are 2 shots one is the lines from a Eldredge-McInnis 26?, the other is the bottom of a Mckenzie they both have a V bottom planeing hull. Location: Barneget Bay Hull will be built out of solid fiberglass, deck and bulkheads will be cored, 2 piece mold due to nice tumblehome and molded-in spray rails. Location: Milwaukee, WI I think the round bottom at those speeds is better. Thanks A 4 inch wide pad is next to usesless to give a hull 20 foot long any sort of lift!, you wouldnt even notice any differance unless you were travelling at 100mph !, it would need to be 10 inchs wide at least!! Originally Posted by tunnels A 4 inch wide pad is next to usesless to give a hull 20 foot long any sort of lift! Originally Posted by tunnels A 4 inch wide pad is next to usesless to give a hull 20 foot long any sort of lift!, you wouldnt even notice any differance unless you were travelling at 100mph !, it would need to be 10 inchs wide at least!!
Originally Posted by tunnels No speed have been forth coming so its all just speculation and speed in rough water is a hard one to work around whats good in smooth water maybe not good in the rough so how about telling us what speeds you are working at !! I understand that there are no hard and fast rules, and a variety of factors need to be considered. Myself i have built boats with a combination of pad and strakes to get to where i wanted to be . The Carl Moesly's design principles are good and his methods relavent to todays wants and needs , speed is the thing people are wanting more and more .
It will be interesting to see how the variable deadrise handles, and then I may try a higher speed design exercise. Location: Australia Investigating dragging strakes I am a green boat owner, looking to solve a challenge with some strakes and dragging at planing and seeking some more informed input. I have found that the boat will plane quite quickly (40 hp) and is relatively stable at 16 kts at approx ? throttle. I am a little bit suspicious that these strakes have been added post manufacture when comparing the welding. I am trying to get a handle on the best solution ? persist and forget about flat out boating, reduce the length of the strakes or cut them off altogether.
My choice woild be to simply chop them off and smooth the welds off , it will make the hull turn quicker ,running at a angle to the swells it could drift off line if you are into big waves . People do things without much thought most of the time .if you want tracking you add a keel not those kinds of silly things . Originally Posted by stuartc24 I am a green boat owner, looking to solve a challenge with some strakes and dragging at planing and seeking some more informed input. The other thing also a 40 hp will be struggling with not only pushing the boat but a couple of stoppers along the bottom . I didnt read anywhere the length of the boat but more hp like 50 or a big foot 60 and those thingies wouldnt have been such a problem . 26' Trojan 1960 » Thread Tools Show Printable Version Email this Page Display Modes Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode Search this Thread Advanced Search Similar Threads Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post A round chine design??
Location: Oriental, NC I use chines like that but they are at least double the amount of taper shown. Also, can it be so that at higher speeds the positive angle of attack is eliminated by the hull lifting enough not to be affected by the chine?
Originally Posted by lazeyjack to mwe the width looks ok, but it is far from monohydron Well, actually it is monohedron as far as I understand the term (constant deadrise). Location: North Europe These discussions are fun, and also the reason why I posted the question. Location: North Europe I just noticed that my PDF printer is making some lines bend (strange !). Location: CT That looks good - I have noticed that nurb surfaces can distort like that - sometimes printer sometimes me. My real problem is to increase stability but still maintain a fine entry and reasonably high deadrise for operation in semi-open waters. Location: Tampa Florida InsTanton hard chine All this talk about Ragtime got me thinking about hard chine concept so I thought I would try my hand at it. Location: Tampa Florida Cp Chris It is nice to hear that you like the basic design. Chris Ostlind Previous Member   There's still quite a bit to know about your overall design, Ron, before much input can be given. I do think that the hull is pretty, but there is a need to balance the various attributes so that the boat is in harmony.


Since I'm not seeing a more cruising oriented design here, I'd guess that you are going for a fast craft. A Cp of .56 would suggest a decently all around form that can live in both low speed and higher speed activities. Location: Tampa Florida Concept The hull is for sailboat that should be good in light to moderate conditions going to weather inshore or offshore. Originally Posted by Ron Cook The hull is for sailboat that should be good in light to moderate conditions going to weather inshore or offshore. Location: Tampa Florida Deadrise Here is the same hull with more deadrise. Ron Cook View Public Profile View Ron Cook's Gallery Find all posts by Ron Cook Page 1 of 2 1 2 > « settled on a boat to build can i put a junk sail on this boat? From time to time a question comes up about what makes one boat better than another or what makes one boat more expensive than another. On smaller boats the chine design has a big effect on how the boat handles in a hard turn at speed.
It's clear that the owners of the examples shown both had better ride and higher speed in mind when they had the extensions built, but I'd guess the folks with the soft chine extension prefer to spend more time at displacement speeds than the folks with the hard chine extension.
Originally Posted By: GoFirstClass Now I know those pics you posted sometime ago of Beachcomber underway was pushing so much water. I recently read a good article on hull form, but can't remember whether it was in Yachting, Soundings, or Passagemaker.In any case, the author covered much of the same information in respect to chines v.
That hull configuration sounds like a modified catamaran, but with a whole lot more wetted surface.
Dave, I looked at the Shannon website and interestingly, there are zero pictures of the hull on their site. I believe this is a rendering of a side view of the boat in question.I agree with GFC though, you would think they would have lots of photos touting this design.
I followed that link and then another that was supposed to go to Shannon Yachts brokerage site.
Location: Northern shore of The Baltic Sea Chine and strake design Hello! Location: Australia There's a great deal of art that goes into successful chine and spray rail design. As fro spary rails, there are a dozen different styles and a thousand different opinions as to which type is best!
Below are a few comments for reference, but I recommend that you do not build anything based on this information without first consulting a professional. The rule that I use is that chine width should be about 1.5 to 2% of the maximum chine beam, per side.
Anyhow, a chine also stiffens the skin and so perhaps should be continued further towards the bow (in this case for structural reasons and not so much for hydrodynamics)? However, the primary function of a spray rail is to separate the water flow from the hull bottom. I only have photos and a not too exact drawing, but well enough to re-draw the general lines. The inner chine (in my simple world) will be effective at top speeds only and with the hull quite far out. Location: Australia Yes - the higher the pressure, the less the surface area required to support it.
But do yourself a favour - a boat like the one you describe is not for the amateur designer.
Location: Thailand Hakim, I would suggest to move fuel tanks forward - under bed or in bottom, slightly aft of middle.
At the moment I am still working on the lines and still need to find the centre of buoyancy.
Location: Los Angeles From the NACA testing reports, it sounds to me like the effectiveness of strakes or chine flats is very limited. Wide chine flats are worse than smaller ones because its (1) more surface area, but worse (2) its like a concave bottom, which pounds more that a simple V or convex bottom. Think of the deadrise like a spring, you want the spring to be most firm at first, and then get LESS firm with more compression. This was tested EXTENSIVELY in test tanks and with full scale (100') vessels in the early years of WW2.
Several builders have found it easier to leave off the strakes completely for easier building, or to just use them for styling purposes. Winged keels lift calc » Thread Tools Show Printable Version Email this Page Display Modes Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode Search this Thread Advanced Search Similar Threads Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post radius chine == radius bilge ? Other than to give a little more interior space and help to direct spray, I cant see that it would add any thing, In fact flair would increase resistance.
Most boats have some degree of flare to make ingress of water from waves splashing against the sides, less likely. In a full size boat where life and limb could be at stake, it is wholly different thinking. The hull getting wider as it rises gives reserve buoyancy and as long as the wider hull is not in the water it will not affect the drag or resistance. For me, they're the most sensible of the various classes because they have a clutch and run on gasoline and not nitro. The flat water ones have more nearly flat afterplanes while the rough water types are deep vees. As for the chine features, you will do well to design in an effort to keep the water under the boat. If so, that feature would, perhaps, augment dynamic lift in the afterplane and also help keep the spray down. I finally have the boat I thought I bought.(TR21) I got it to the lake today for a test run. There are also calcs available that will estimate lift from strakes (email me if you want more info). I have a sheet of board painted white up on the wall in my shed and thats where i do my doodling , that way i can draw full size, because some things in small scale look ok till you get them actual size and then you can see problems that are not possible to see on paper . I am no exception to this i want both ends of the chart , a good sea boat in moderately rough choppy seas and reasonable big swells to a fast get up and go fast in smooth water , This is the hard one to satisfy ,whats good for one situation is not good for the other so after building race boats i do a combination of pad and strakes combinations and have been able to get what i like .
If they had been a proper strake they should have slightly enhanced the performance not slowed it down and also not made a lot of differance to the turning of the boat at speed . What are positive and negative aspects to a tapered chine width (not a tapered chine) on a otherwise monohedron hull.
Straight and parallel waterlines dictates that the surface is flat (single plane) thus monohedron as I understand it. The possitive angled chine on an otherwise monohedron surface (constant deadrise) produces a tapered width, or if you may, the other way around.


Having slender forms forward can minimize pounding, but it may come at the expense of reduced buoyancy which has its own issues that aren't so much fun.
Even heeled, I have a feeling that you are going to exeprience a hull that might just run out of gas by having a low Cp like this. The boat had a very sharp entry and the deadrise flattened toward the middle, went completely flat at some point and then kept warping as it continued aft until it ended in an inverted V. For higher speeds, it is generally accepted that 3 per side is ideal, with those closest to the chine running all the way aft and the other two somewhat shorter. There are always exceptions and the ideal angles, widths and locations of spray rails, chines - and everything else in boat design for that matter! Talk to ten designer's about chine's and spray rails and you'll probably get 20 different answers!! A concave bottom, and wide chine flats, is the opposite, so far less comfortable, far more structural loads. The result is what we see: either flattened V near the centerline, as on the world's fastest V bottom powerboats (Fountain), or straight V constant deadrise as on nearly all other boats, with small chine flats -- just enough to ensure the water flow does not climb up the topsides when moulded in Fiberglass.
Reason for that is water will pretty much shoot off parallel to what the angle of the sides is. Almost all of them are using Zenoah engines and almost all of them are of fairly conventional design. That is to say that a lot of spray climbing the sides will slow the boat enough to matter in competition. The bottom often extends slightly below the bevel intersection by the thickness of the ply bottom. I never knew what people were talking about when they said they had chine walk on a triton.
Example !,The pad was 6inchs wide and the 2 strakes 18inchs away from the pad on each side and they were 4 inchs wide each one with a 1.5 degree turn down . If its tracking and wanting to go in a staight line then adding to the keel would have been a better option , theres only one keel so half the problem to add to . The reason that it does not look monohedron is that the chine varies in width which makes the hull seem warped when it is not. Sloping the chine down in profile can compensate for this but I imagine you will have to put some time into your model to do this.
From about Sta.6 aft close down the chine - loosing some volume aft is usually advantageous for your LCG placement and the flat helps out of the hole. In light airs, this could produce an efficiently driven hull, but to easily reach higher boat speeds and then keep it there, I think you'll need to give the bow some help. Of course the goal for this sailboat differs from yours, but the hull shape will give a good idea about what an InsTanton hull shape is all about. I also wonder how much research is currently underway into commercial hull shapes now that these rotton, stickin, thievin oil companies have jacked up the price of oil. It basically had a single deep V bow and a tunnel hull stern, (or hard inverted chines at the stern that never turned back downward). Thus, adding a spray rail where it can't achieve this does nothing but add to the wetted surface (and hence drag). But you are right: I am not as arrogant as many others and do know where I have my limits (this is why I try to learn here ). The only thing a strake at the surface, or a chine does is reduce the effective deadrise from the surface athwarthsip angle to the angle from the keel directly to the outside of the chine. Give the sides some outward flare, and the spray etc will go more outward than into the boat. The fins can cause the boat to hook in a turn and cause a crowd pleasing, spectacular, rolling flip.
If overdone you lose too much forward bearing and then you risk plunging, bow bury, or even pitch pole. A well designed chine will difflect water and spray but strakes should be there for the purpose to help lift the hull and keep the hull stable ,so they need to be much bigger and more powerfull in there design , placement and use . In this you can see that the waterlines are straight and parallel and so are the buttocks (over the aft part of the hull).
They provide lift, increase dynamic stability (and to a lesser extent initial stability) and reduce spray. On all but the fastest of planing hulls, the bottom is immersed to almost the full beam at the transom (if not the full beam). I am actually in contact with two experienced designers and before I start mixing the resin, they will be consulted.
Its was a 14 foot INFLATEABLE and used to really move and turn and go back the other way in its own length if you were game enough to hang on and not get thrown out , I also had 1 inch of rocker built in to the keel but the rocker was more near the front than anywhere else . And as for starkes hindering the hull turning etc there ways round that and you can have all the sideways slip you want in the rear end yet still have a wide strake with capabilities and the lift for straight running . The surface is truly flat according to both the softwares I am using (SolidWorks for parametric modeling and Rhino for stability and some other analysis). At speed in a vee-d planing hull, it is really only the topsides forward that come into play, intermittently encountering waves, and once again the more vertical the surfaces the water meets, the more likely water will be sent vertically, and make the boat wet.
What they do is introduce a very slight hook in the afterplane that helps hold the nose down, hopefully to prevent or reduce the liklihood of blowovers.
The high point of Rocker can be shifted anywhere along the lenght of the keel to perform differant tasks depending on how you want the boat to sit at speed and how quick you want it to turn . As a kid i drew boats and made models as a hobby till i left school and them started work and started building my models full size .
Again - this is a generalised rule of thumb - plenty of boats get by with no chine flat at all. Devices such as spray rails have the effect of intercepting water climbing upwards, and deflecting it outward, away from the boat, which may also be advantageous in reducing drag by lessening the wetted area. The deadrise is constant troughout, so that the bottom and the topsides planking (or plating, or glassing etc.) is bent in one plane only and not twisted. It's also interesting that, despite the great reviews in the article, a check of Yachtworld boat listings showed ZERO listings of Shannon power boats made since the late 80's. The chine does not create disturbance and with a slight angle of heel, the immersed lee chine cuts cleanly, while the raised one squelches the wave train and keep the boat dry. Reverse Chinepro--better floatation at planing speeds, holds better in a turn, more stable when stoppedcon--tends to slap more at planing speeds, noisier than a hard chine boat.



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