Location: Alliston, Ontario, Canada This thread is a bit quiet, has everyone gone away or is nothing happening due to the season?
I cut small slots in the plywood bow and stern and on each side in the middle for the ratchet straps. I cut one other piece of ply for a seat across the top of the inter tube and charged all the battery packs I had. Location: Alliston, Ontario, Canada Things are kind of quiet on this thread but here is another $100 boat.
Location: Alliston, Ontario, Canada Now that's what I call a lot of boat for the money! I haven't modified the boat to use wind-power yet so it is still driven by good old-fashioned paddle-power, I expect it to do about 8km to the jam sandwich.
Speaking of excitement, how many of you survived the class III rapids run in the recycled oil tank? Location: Arlington, WA-USA I built the boat below for about $35, all wood was salvaged from construction sites and trash. Location: Arlington, WA-USA I think the whole thing weighs about 150 lbs or so (I have not weight it yet). The mast was pretty easy, I started with a single 1x12 VG fir plank 16 ft long I savaged from an old church building remodel. Originally Posted by Petros I built the boat below for about $35, all wood was salvaged from construction sites and trash. Location: Alliston, Ontario, Canada Just an afterthought, the boat (Dora) in my April 20 posting has turned out to be a great boat on the water.
I got a lot of help from the forum on the design of that rather pretty seat, which is actually intended for a later boat, a Wee Lassie, scheduled for Fall (don't think there's any Oz's on this thread but that's Spring, fellas, if your listening). Location: Arlington, WA-USA Using traditional skin-on-frame construction you can build a much nicer sea kayak than using plywood.
The most expensive part was the fabric, 9 oz nylon from George Dyson and Company in Bellingham WA. Location: Arlington, WA-USA You can take any small boat design you like that uses flat panels (hard chines) and covert it to skin-on-frame construction. It is a very light weight way to build, this 14' sailboat goes on the roof of my Toyota Tercel for transport on a normal roof rack (I have had it on the roof of our van but it is more trouble to load because it is so high off the ground). There are a lot of good hobby web sites about building skin-on-frame kayaks, one of the best books is Chris Cunningham's book on building Greenland sea kayaks. When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Be a part of the first mixed team of rowers to make landfall in South America having crossed the Atlantic. Two ocean rowing record holders build these specialist boats for long distance rowing events.
The question is, would such a design be suitable for entering (and hopefully finishing) the Blackburn Challenge? The passenger seat backrest and armrests would be removable for performance competitions and installed for show competitions. Here are some performance observations from having rowed my Mandarin 17 for 98.2 miles over the past 37 days since I bought my rowboat. It is my personal feeling that I am hitting a performance wall of wave making resistance at 4.5 mph with the Mandarin 17. If a 20 foot version of a Thames Rowing Skiff is suitable for the Blackburn Challenge, I might seriously consider having one built for the 2014 challenge. I would install canvas covers over the large open bow and stern areas for the open water coastal rowing.
Location: Essex UK Thames Skiffs vary quite a lot but most of the old ones are not really designed to be good seaboats. Location: Livingston, TX Rowing in 20 mph wind After rowing in 20 mph wind yesterday on Lake Livingston, I believe I answered my own question.
Location: annapolis,md That is a pretty boat SailorDon, but yes I agree, that's not rough water. Originally Posted by acp1934 That is a pretty boat SailorDon, but yes I agree, that's not rough water. All I have to do is build up my endurance so I can go 5 times that long, and of course pray for flat water. Originally Posted by SailorDon I was just practicing in case it gets a little rough like this: Yeah that's a tad bit choppy.
Problem with Thames Skiffs is that they were built for the upper Thames, where the biggest wave you're likely to see is about three inches high during a gale. Location: Livingston, TX After 200 miles of rowing - no Blackburn Challenge After rowing my Mandarin 17 Thames Rowing Skiff for 200 miles over the past 3 months, I have concluded that it is not suitable for competitive coastal rowing. Unfortunate that the camcorder was fixed on a tripod so the shot only shows the first 3 feet of the boat slicing into the wave. Lister Previous Member   Feathering the oars will help a great deal.
I'm think for me to make a serious entry in the Blackburn Challenge, I need a rowboat more like the Savo 650S.
So, the Savo and Thames are equally unsuited for the BBC from the stand point of the intended waters of the original design.
So, it really comes down to whether the boat is fast and whether the oarsman can handle the boat and conditions. Location: Cruising Depends on the year, I have done the Blackburn a few times in kayaks, One year it was glassy calm the whole way around and full on racing shells did fine (and set course records).
Another year they had to rescue so many people the coast guard told them never to run the race in those conditions again. Location: Arlington, WA-USA You can dry the mast with a fire, either slow cook it next to the fire, rotating and moving it along regularly, or hand hold it and feed it over the fire. Water proof the lee boards with wax (either rub-in or apply heated and wipe off), motor oil (not recommended), milk (will not last very long, dry it on like paint), egg whites, vegetable oil. Originally Posted by sharpii2 If the transom is intended to end the boat underwater, it is meant to be a planing powerboat.
The reason I bring this up is, if the boat is designed to plane, the transom will likely end the boat underwater once the boat is converted to a sailboat. Location: La Florida If you have limited resources you can look back to our ancestors who had to make do with very little.
Originally Posted by hoytedow If you have a tree limb, a bit of metal or stone and some rope you can make a drill.
Location: La Florida There are lots of ancient techniques available if one does not have access to modern equipment. Location: Arlington, WA-USA that is a rather fancy primitive drill, a simpler one that I have used is to find a block of wood and put a notch in the middle, that is the top pivot, use a dowel or fairly straight roundish stick, and than make a bow (as in bow and arrow) with a loose string. I have used the dipping lug before, not because I like the way it sails (I do not) but it uses fewer parts than any other sail and it is simple to rig with just a singel short yard arm.
Originally Posted by Petros the picture below is of a simple modified junk rig we made for about $6 ($3 for the tarp and about $3 for battens and 15 ft of duck tape), it won two different races and performed better than the other home made sails (some were much larger) in the contests we entered it in.
Location: Arlington, WA-USA to make a junk rig point better you need to put camber into the panels so there is camber on the sail.

Although I appreciate and respect fine craftsmanship, there's a legitimate place in the world for the 'quick and dirty, get it done and go on with your life' approach.
El_Guero Previous Member   Pine would be my last choice if I had options.
Petros, I found a way to attach leeboards without drilling, but out of pure interest, doesn't this traditional bow drill split the wood? I'm still thinking if I should dry the mast - with the fire method, what kind of weight loss in mast could I expect?
Believe it or not, I got all I need, I finished all the hard work, and tommorow morning, if winds are favorable, I'll set sail. So, every bone and muscle in my hands hurt, I'm tired as hell, but very happy - two leeboards, mast and gaff in one day, and with any luck, I'll make some upwind distance tomorrow. Location: Cocoa Beach, Florida Everglades Challenge 2010 Well, Randy Smyth apparently capsized and was rescued by the Coast Guard. Location: Oshkosh,WI There is nothing in the posts of this years race that shows that Randy was picked up by the Coast Guard.
Location: Cocoa Beach, Florida That'll learn me to quote posters on SA-the results page shows the Challenge in progress and nobody finished the first leg. Steve Isaac, the originator of the Watertribe and it's webmaster, head ringleader, is involved this year in one of the three competitions, Ultimate Florida Challenge. It's probably best to limit comments as to the fate of a particular entry until all the marbles have been gathered and the person speaks for themselves.
Chris Ostlind Previous Member   Some of you guys may find this collection of images to be of interest.
The two pages of boat photos here were shot last Friday and early Saturday morning on the beach at Ft. Ben and his Dad completed the event in 23 hours, 35 minutes for an average speed of 2.8 miles per hour.
Location: Cocoa Beach, Florida Well, Randy Smyth got second and the Tornado guys won for-I think-the third time. This looks like an extended aquaplane ( hollow wake board of the 1930s for those who don't know) with sort of flat iron skiff topsides sort of stuck on top in order to pile gear behind. I cant imagine any circumstance other than flat water that those things don't act like snow shovels. Location: auckland nz Maybe Meade's most important philosophy of Yello was skidding it across mud - to hell with sailing. Location: Chicago Area From what I've read, the boat is a flats fishing machine!
Or, I'd like to use the same parts for both the prop drive and for the bike, or turn the boat into a bike, or some combo of this nature. Anyway, I got a few different ideas rolling around but my plan A is to use oars and the bike to tow. In looking around for different designs I came across the K-designs , they had designs for a 14' and 16' biplane rigged cat, along with a folding cat, exactly what I've already spec-ed in and made a model of, perfect, I got a place to start from.
Now I know that in races, everyone wants to keep their design a secret so they can have an edge against their competitors but the watertribe race is different and I just look at it as one big ol' and long messabout with friends.
Anyway, we all have spot trackers, so when it's time to follow the race it'll be a lot of fun for everyone. I expect some of the others will weigh in here and give this thread a lot of attention, wild assed opinions and even some sage advice. Location: Arlington, WA-USA messabout, you have to read the rules for this particular race to understand the design.
Spidennis, i did not catch it in your post, but are you going solo, or have a sailing partner? I would also suggest you make the wheels on the hull removable since they will add a lot of drag if left in place.
Location: USA Dennis, here's a commercial system that uses a bike-boat system that is the most efficient I have seen to date. Originally Posted by Wavewacker Hey, good luck with your project and especially the race! Before the UFC, I got the EC to do and I'll be paddling a lot since I'll paddle that event. Originally Posted by Petros messabout, you have to read the rules for this particular race to understand the design.
Originally Posted by portacruise Dennis, here's a commercial system that uses a bike-boat system that is the most efficient I have seen to date. Location: Roaring Forties I would go with an outrigger canoe with an optional sail rig. I would suggest closely studying those who have won this race in the past for an optimum solution. Location: Los Angeles I'm no where near fit enough, I only ride my bike a hundred miles a week in the foothills, whereas Randy has been working out 40 hours a week for thirty years, and he wasn't a wimp before that. Originally Posted by FAST FRED Dragging or pushing for 40 miles sounds like the hardest part.
Originally Posted by JosephT I would go with an outrigger canoe with an optional sail rig. Originally Posted by u4ea32 I'm no where near fit enough, I only ride my bike a hundred miles a week in the foothills, whereas Randy has been working out 40 hours a week for thirty years, and he wasn't a wimp before that. Combined with this I would like to use electrovalves or springloaded, string+cleat operated gatevalves for at least the gravity feed (ie tacking) so that impacts the layout as well. Location: Flattop Islands I guess I was wondering why you would want to pump between tanks?
Scenario 1: Forward valve can divert water athwartships, via gravity only or aft via pump or gravity to tank 3 say. Location: maine do you find you NEED that much ( area wise) non-skid Kapt.?
In a stink pot you only need a path to the anchor, but on a sail boat you are running all over the place so the more non skid the better. Jim, ever wander why it happens that we start trying to help some nube and we always end up talking to each other and they disappear? Location: Kailua, Hawaii I am still on the fence as to if I should add another coat or not. Location: Kailua, Hawaii BTW, awlgripped my cabin sole and teak bilge cover. Location: Brisbane So right Much, VERY FEW reps even know where their nose is, they crap on about things, but you realise in 5 seconds that they know F all. Location: South Florida Use the little blue book and the web page as a guide. Originally Posted by mango madness I am still on the fence as to if I should add another coat or not. Location: La Florida I tell you the wind was fierce and persistent that morning and straight out of the south. If you couldn't sail to windward in those conditions there needs to be some serious re-evaluation of the desirable qualities in an EC boat. Location: La Florida The boat I previously mentioned that couldn't make it had a large profile above the water line and the solo skipper couldn't row it out.

Location: Cocoa Beach, Florida Did the scow guy ever get going or was that the one the Chief pulled the plug on? I once was sailing a Tornado in 30 -40 knot winds with a novice friend (no jib) and the only other boat was an E-scow with 8 to 10 people on the rail. I gave up my efforts to write my own software when I downloaded a copy of DelftShip which is what Freeship is calling itself these days.
I stretched the inter tube with one ratchet strap around the tube and through a slot in the ply on one end and ratcheted the other strap until the tube was to the full length of the plywood . I have had success using lightweight tarp material which I can sew on my wife's sewing machine when she isn't looking. We aim to cross the world?s largest ocean with a crew of eight people from mainland to mainland, Peru to the east coast of Australia. Every year a goodly number enter the Great river race and its not unknown for one to get swamped.
If you want to row the Blackburn, why not build a different design for that and enjoy your skiff on the lake?
You could probably get an extra half knot or so if the boat kept the same width and grew to 20 feet. Because as I understand, modern steel drills remove wood from the hole, while this bow drill seems to just punch a hole, pushing through the wood with the sharp tip - if this is the case, doesn't wood start to split and fracture because of this (I had some very bad experience with trying to get some thick wood screws through a plank without drilling holes first - basically, plank broke).
I understand that most people here are professionals, and they naturally try to suggest professional solutions, even though I don't have these options Still, it is very interesting to read it, there are many ideas which I might use later. Over the last three years, Randy has developed a colorful way of presenting his various experiences and they range from Spring Break footballers rescuing him one year, to being captured on a lee shore by a band of roving lesbians. DeSoto State Park, Florida, the launching site for all of the Watertribe events that are being held this year. Pretty good when you consider that they only had one chance to paddle together before the nasty Michigan winter set-in. Keep It Simple, almost certainly things will fail or malfunction, the less complex the mechanism the less chance of something to go wrong.
The wheels would have to be much wider than the pictured road bike if you are going over sand. If I were just a few years younger, better looking, richer, didn't drink so much, could stop chasing women and run like I use to in my twenties, by golly, I'd give you a run for your money in that race!!! Custom made (bigger) board with supplies capacity (minimal size) for the guy who does marathons or triathlons. Worth, Tx, USA One of these EC threads commented that the reason for a lots of DNF's this years was the large number of DNS at the start.
The reason I would be scared to sail one with two people is the large size of the boat and sail, and the tendency to slam in waves. That hull posted above looked like it would plane but more in the sense of a carpenter's plane, shaving off the tops of the waves. It was all great fun until we passed them going to weather at twice their speed when they quit and went in. There is the possibility that the bottom could be tweaked a bit so that you could optimize prismatic coefficients for the upper end of the speed range and such stuff.
Incidentally, I am working on a design that I hope will be inherently ideal for open water racing. I'm not sure if it's worth drying it for this month, or is it better to leave it to dry naturally for the next season.
For example, that lashed rudder system is exactly what I was looking for my skin-on frame boat design, since I can't use hardware on skin. Almost all of the stuff getting posted is coming from the various and sundry racers, interested family members and beach-bound enthusiasts. Randy came close to having his man-essence drained, escaping only when the Coasties dispatched an all-male crew to save him. Their effort is further elevated when you consider the number of DNF's in their particular race due to cold weather. I have no doubt that he'll meet all his goals and turn in a terrific time for the 300 mile test. It does a good job although it is a little strange, more like stretching a rubber sheet than defining offsets to get the hull you want. She runs dead straight, less than 20 lb so I can tuck her under my arm across the 200 yds wide beach. I've got a friend that used the Tyvek idea too- wouldn't have thought others would be that thrifty too, it's awesome. Some of it is going to be innaccurate, simply becasue of the sheer size of the course, the logistics of tracking everyone and a dozen other issues. Their time turns out to be the best posted for what is a Class 1 double crew entry this year.
I like them for day sailing but to spend days on the thing is a punishment that you do not deserve. This would really be tough, almost as tough as a PD Racer with a better chance of finishing well.
You can see the halyard bowed on the scow in the photo above and it almost never went slack from the wind letting off. I wouldn't sail a normal scow- I'd either modify it with DSS or build from scratch with DSS.
The lateen sail is a lifting sail which should enhance the lifting effect of the Bruce foil; I have tried something like it before using a sail that folds kind of like an umbrella and it worked well on an even smaller boat with only 12 sq ft of sail area. Kind of hard work to turn though, almost zero rocker, lots of sharp edged chines a keel and a skeg to boot; I overdid the directionality. Of course, these are pines like pinus strobus (white pine), but still, a pine is a pine, so, what is wrong with using it? It was truly painful to make that kind of shape with huge axe, kitchen knife and sandpaper that doesn't seem to do anything unless you rub in for 10 minutes per section.
You can also see those leeboards, but this was before I started to shape them - when I finished, it was too dark outside to make a photo. Class 1 denotes stock, non-racing dedicated canoes and kayaks, with either single, or double crew.
The ones that could make it out that day did it by rowing from shallow water until they got to a point where they could raise sail and tack without being driven back onto the beach. I'll make some tomorrow, with the full system ready to go, and then some pictures from sailing (unless it'll be an embarrasing failure). Use a thicker roller, almost like house paint type of roller and just roll the entire deck at one time.
Anyway, both systems are simple enough to try them both - I think I'll leave some of that pine for lug yard.

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