When designing a stitch and glue hull for plywood composite construction and all developable panels, how can one predict how the plywood will bend? Modeling designs in Rhino is one thing but I have no idea whether the wood will conform to the developable shapes I am modeling.
Location: auckland nz bending ply Here's a jpeg of the bow sections of the CBSkimmer - in 4mm meranti plywood. Bending ply requires some patience and slowly increasing clamp pressures, plus a few judicious saw cuts in a couple of high tensioned areas (but watch out the whole thing doesn't explode like a spiked balloon). Location: maine To calculate how far a panel will bend, rip a strip of it and bend. I've done coamings without steaming by laying them between two supports for a couple of weeks in the summer with weight bowing them down. Location: Utah Can anyone offer any insight into the phenomenon I described in my last post? I would also be interested to know if there is a commonly used term for this phenomenon, which would allow me to search on it to find more info. If you take a cut across a simply curved surface in any direction other than perpendicular to the curvature plane, you will be cutting across some portion of the original curvature. For prediction, I would imagine the amount is directly related to the angular difference between the section cut and the conic (if present) radial line or surface 0 isobend (don't know the term - 'contour' where bending = 0 ) factored by the amount of curvature or bending (perpendicular to the surface) that the panel has at that averaged (if twist) curvature location. The situation you are describing sounds to me like the conical development you will get anytime you induce twist into a rolled sheet. I use several surface development software packages to design hulls, and I normally export the design data into Autocad to finish the drawing. I normally draw a fair chine in elevation and plan and then adjust the keel profile to suit, while adjusting the origin points of the conic projection lines. If I haver had to alter the lines in Autocad, I then go back to Prosurf or Rhino and change the lines accordingly so I check the hydrostatics.
What I have found is that performing a conic projection produces a possible conic solution to how the plates will sit, but it is not always the solution that the plates will find. There may be (certainly are in fact) much smarter people out there who know things that I don't about developing accurate cross sections.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals.
Location: Nevada City, CA, USA simple small boat design software hello, I'm trying to find some software to help me design smaller boats. Location: Nevada City, CA, USA okay, i'm having trouble with some of the more advanced aspects of the design, along with the other simpler designs. For more advanced stuff, write a letter to Baeckmo, as shown above and seriously look into Rhino 3D.
04:59 PM  Anyone with CAD or boat design software interested in helping me on a boat design?! This said, ACX is about the crappiest plywood you can buy for many reasons, voids included.
Some boats aren't worth marine grade materials, like Uncle John's skiff, or a few of the simple flat bottom classics like the Lumberyard, or even my Digger design. Boston Previous Member   Par's got a gruff way about him sometimes but he's earned it as near as I can tell. Location: Eustis, FL I'm only gruff to those that can't answer the questions asked of them. I've done it before, shall I dissect yet another set of Michael boys posts to show where he's skidded off the road?
As I've said previously, I've intentionally picked you, not because this is my way, but simply because of your seemingly unwillingness to defend, the sometimes outrageous or plainly stupid comments you make. Yep, I'm a points ***** Michael, I've paid many people off, so I can artificially jack up my reputation. Again, I don't think I have anything to prove, that hasn't been over the nearly decade long participation here.
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Location: Milwaukee, WI Tortured plywood designs When I first heard about tortured plywood it seemed like a great idea. Location: Alliston, Ontario, Canada Depends what you mean by tortured ply, I suppose.
Location: Tasmania,Australia With the low quality, high price of ply - it probably is just too hard. If you need something to hold wet fibreglass off the floor while it dries, marine foam does a better job easier. Location: Duluth, Minnesota Tortured ply is only suitable for long skinny hulls such as multihulls and kayaks etc,Malcolm Tennant had a very nice cat design called Red Shift available and also a coupleof designs dating back to the late 60s i think,also hard to argue with the success of Meade Gougeons 2400lb 35ft 40yr old tri Adagio, rates something like negative 60s under PHRF on lake huron.

Originally Posted by rwatson With the low quality, high price of ply - it probably is just too hard. Location: Alliston, Ontario, Canada The Carene software is very quick for creating cosntant camber designs. Location: Milwaukee, WI I was thinking about modifying the constant camber to change it in the ends of the hull. Originally Posted by gonzo I was thinking about modifying the constant camber to change it in the ends of the hull. Location: Alliston, Ontario, Canada It is no longer available from the original source. Location: Eustis, FL Yes, there is a measure of how far plywood can be tortured.
Originally Posted by rwatson Good grief man - are you still rabbiting on about my harmless comments. Location: Duluth, Minnesota I dont think that bending plywood is exterior bonded so check that out before you get too excited. Originally Posted by Steve W I dont think that bending plywood is exterior bonded so check that out before you get too excited.
Location: Alliston, Ontario, Canada Flexible plywood will bend much more than regular plywood in one axis, it is rather stiffer in the other axis but not much. If I wanted a curve in both directions that regular plywood could not do, I would use strip plank construction, at least on the curved portion of the hull.
Attached are a couple of pictures to show the shape achieved also a picture of an Australian Tri built using same method, benefits are it is very fast to work and nice shape can be achieved.
Location: New Zealand More of the Auz tri More photo's of Auz Tri build method. Canoe and kayak plans over l in turn for recreational and professional boat PLYWOOD & CEDAR STRIP PLANKED OPEN CANOES AND KAYAKS. Other plys will bend even further, like Hoop pine and of course the expensive aircraft plies in 1.5 and 3mm guages. Any sheet material with conform to what is called a developable surface, whic is essentially a section of either a cylinder or a cone (or combinations of cylinders and cones). It is freeware, relatively simple to use (but it DOES have a learning curve), and gives you all the hydrostatics, stability and resistance calculations you need for kayaks. And use the search function here (and for the basically similar Delftship) to find good tutorials. I am using it but I always go back to hullform for quick simple hull design or just playing around. Truly, you can't expect much from the simpler, cost free software when it comes to documentation. Do make use of the archives and the search function at whatever site you do your snooping, as there is a rich cascade of info at your finger tips to help you figure out the morass before you.
I have used Rhino for years now for design work and it is incredibly good for flat panel design, as well as smooth hull variations.
It's not manufactured for bending into boat shapes, nor dynamic loading, both of which a boat will impart on it.
It does tend to check and this is difficult to control without a thick sheathing, but for bulkheads, furniture framing, shelves inside cabinets, sole supports, bilge partitions, seat and berth tops (I can think of a hundred uses), it's just fine, cheap, strong, bla, bla, bla. You tackle subject matter that you literally haven't the foggiest about, with surprising regularity. I've asked dozens of little Mikey, but he never answers, just changes the subject as he's done once again here. I don't have anything to prove that my previous words and actions haven't already supported. The film my other half used, as we lifted her off the blocking and place her back on a trailer, was old and made some interesting photos. Some other self builds, to my own designs are also viable in the shop, including my old Club Cadet, which died a few years ago and I still miss.
Many are sketches describing something, but others are my work, which I've never attempted to publish, promote or other wise peddle here on on any other web site. Well I looked it up and interestingly enough I posted an image showing my version of the Payson butt joint as an alternative to a complicated puzzle joint. Maybe it would be best if you started a poll and found what the rest of the membership felt. My canoes have some twist in the garboards, quite a lot on one of them, and I have done some experiments on a new design with bottom planks that will each have a 85 deg twist from midships to the stems.
While you are correct in principle, dividing the hull into a greater number of planks would reduce the stress.
I have a list of radiuses I can expect different thicknesses and types of plywood can reliably bend to, before rolling sheer and interlaminate issues crop up.

For example a 3 veneer sheet of Douglas fir can bend further (tighter radius) then a 5 veneer sheet.
Of course, I'm not responsible for any cracked or broken plywood, bent to these radiuses, other then to say, I've successfully bent pieces to these dimensions previously enough to warrant including them on the list. Fasten in order to segragate the bulges, and then come from outside each bulges to the center with the fastening.
When you bend a sheet of ply, alloy or steel around the chines and centreline of most boat shapes, you will induce some twist into the sheet.
Freeware has some decent written material to get you going, but it's going to take some hours in the chair to get it under control. As a modeling program, it is pretty much a standard in many small, to medium, design shops worldwide and it is affordable. In places you need to use it, but don't want to deal with finishing it, use MDO, which is marine grade Douglas fir, except covered with rosin paper. I've challenged you repeatedly for confirmation of your facts or substantiation of your professed theories, but to no avail, you're literally are helpless, hapless, in fact clueless and don't even see how much you attempt to chew on. You don't get to mine or Michael status without considerable previous contribution and participation.
This is a 28' boat and I'm still the skinny guy in the back ground (far left) trying to figure out how I'm going to get the heavy cradle up on the concrete pad while the back hoe is tied up holding the boat in the air.
That image has been downloaded 93 times, suggesting one of us has been helpful at least this may times in one posting. I have been experimenting with cutting the seam bevels before bending the planks, since they are also constant.
Most of the twist is where the chines lead up toward the bow, which is why you notice the effect most there. The process of performing a conic development looks scary to a novice but gets earsier with practise.
It's all about putting in the time, asking questions of those who have gone before you and making some reasonable connections in the process that open new doors and new realizations. So, even the most expensive epoxy in the world still comes to prove that Michael doesn't have a clue.
Other then yourself, no one would ever consider that I'm self promoting my work here, I don't need to Michael. You see, the only difference between us is my dribble can be substantiated and others here will attest to it relevance, while yours rarely is, making it fodder for the gun I've leveled at you.
The reflections on the planking will give you an indication of the quality of the 2 year project.
I can usually over bend plywood, past my guide lines, using my ear to tell me when I've reached the maximum limits of the plywood's tolerance on this particular radius. Autocad makes it much simpler, as the origin points of the cones can be dragged around to find the best origin points. But when I see the possibilities of Freeship, I realize that one should take a close look there! I'm not thinking when I do finally get rolling on my build that I'm relegated to either the cheap *** stuff or the ultra expensive stuff, there material in the middle of the range that will work. Well you say, maybe the BS-6566 meranti for a $650 dollar bill, even the imposable to finish Douglas fir APA1-95 stuff is a $500 bill compared to $300 for the ACX. On all most every occasion, I've used your own words, beliefs and theories against you, which is probably why you're so displeased. It wasn't completed yet, but was within a few weeks of being so and it was a big moment for the other half, as it was going back on the trailer out of her sight from the window. Free plans from This boat uses only 2 sheets of plywood The single file includes a tone away step tutorial on reading boat plywood canoe plans. If you look at the frame sections superimposed on each other, as they are in the sections plan, then you will notice that the aft sections are more likely to be parallel and the front ones tend to fan apart. I've asked before and I'll try again, speak what you know, which as others and myself can attest, isn't design or construction. I like the idea of using foam for bulkheads, although I don't think that's what RW was referring to.
We should all bow to your wise and noble incite, to the questions you once again failed miserably to self support. I use insulating foam as a table top, makes cutting ply with a power panel saw a snap, and I assemble small boats on the foam as well.

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